Amazing damsel still living ! 2 week tank cycle

[jpsika08]

AJK,
I been sharing a couple of answer and suggestions with you since the day you subscribed; since we exchanged a couple of posts I knew about your interest and good intentions toward fish/coral keeping; I think the most difficult part of this hobby has to do with patience, believe me when I started, the first thing I would wanted to is go buy a couple of fishes and enjoy the tank right away, at least this is what I could do with fresh water tanks.

After the first two weeks of beginning learning from the vast experience everyone has in this forum I managed to control myself and take one step at a time, I'm not here to judge you or support you in the way you're planning your reef keeping, but just as an Avatar buddy to really encourage you to listen to all the good fellas of this forum and really learn from them; I know you'll will do what's best for you and your live inhabitants, and please, if you place a post and don't get a response do a couple of things, one is to bump the thread as maybe it wasn't seen at the moment or PM me and I will try to help the best way possible.

Believe me when I tell you this is the friendliest forum on the net, even the one suggested above I used to be there too and no more my friend, people will flame you just for fun.

Take care

 

[AJK]

So, you being irresponsible and putting a fish in an uncycled tank is everyone elses fault?

Absolutely not. Decisions I make, will alway's be my own responsibility. I have read other sources, where people put live sw fish into uncycled tanks, to cycle tanks. Since I've alway's done well with this method in my fw tanks, believed I would do well with sw tank too.

I mean honestly, I have a warped sense of humor. I was being sarcastic with the LFS, afterwards I asked if I could get a refund, if the fish doesn't make it. Of course I don't want my fish to die. If this was the case, then why? even have fish tanks ? I just feel confident my fish will do well.

Believe me, I have done alot of research and reading, majority of the information is confusing.

No, not lonely. Just sometimes in life, when someone starts a new hobby, they enjoy interaction. Like I've been a member of an F-body forum, for years. Lot's of interaction and friendships. Many questions may be stupid to those that are experienced, and feel do not a reply, but to a newbie questions are important.

Good luck to you too. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[AJK]

I think we are plenty active here on RS. But if you feel you will do better elsewhere I know a whole bunch of people that would love to hear from you.

Hi Frankie,
Thanks for input and assistance I do not have any issues with forum, I have learned quite alot here. But sometimes it's frustrating waiting for answers, then having to call LFS, for bad advise = your problem is my sales.

I did not see your thread about temperature (must have gotten pushed off the home page due to all the activity)

Sorry, question had to do something about heater failure and how long can live sand/rock survive in freezing temps.

Sounds to me like you missed the main reading for starting up. click on this link and start reading the links in the first post. You have a long way to go yet.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...rs/33555-look-frequently-asked-questions.html

Thanks, but already read.

Most people get a little bent over cycling a tank with a live fish.

I think people get bent, moving away from thier comfort zone. People easily share what they are comfortable with. And what I have done, is not comfortable to lot's of folks. If a problem does occur, they do not know how to help. Understandable.

Thanks for all your wise advice, forums have good/bad, just need to find those that will support. I view hobbies as fun, not a life/death experience. No matter how perfect a newbie tries to be, we all make mistakes, only time and experience prevents tank failure.

So far you have received some good advice and information. I would like to see you find better elsewhere really. Most forums online are not so gentile on this topic.

I sure have, reason I keep posting at the forum. I will not allow anyone to discourage me, from enjoying sw fun.

So please keep an open mind and be considerate of the ones that do take the time to give you advice.

I sure will, I've alway's had an open mind, reason I'm not afraid to try new things. Lot's of wonderful people here, just getting questions answered can be a bit slow.

If you need some guidance off the main forum please feel free to PM me.

Thank you very much friend. Thanks for understanding, and I will alway's keep you in mind.

Frank[/QUOTE]

 

[AJK]

AJK, I been sharing a couple of answer and suggestions with you since the day you subscribed; since we exchanged a couple of posts I knew about your interest and good intentions toward fish/coral keeping; I think the most difficult part of this hobby has to do with patience, believe me when I started, the first thing I would wanted to is go buy a couple of fishes and enjoy the tank right away, at least this is what I could do with fresh water tanks.

Thank you friend I have very little patients, just my personality. Well to be honest, my plans were to build a coral reef tank out of my 120 gal,. My 26 gal is a learning phase. Now, with all the money I'll be spending on my 120 gal tank, trust me I'll be super patient. Think people take hobby more seriously because of time/money invested into hobby. Such as my fw tank, has an awesome filteration system, lot of money spent on equipment, decor etc.... So, when a new hobbyist just throws a tank together, I'm thinkin hope that tank survives.

I asked one guy on youtube, how much his 120 gal coral system cost, what type of equipment, he emailed back $7000.00,. I became alittle discouraged, then one day decided to start small, my 26 gal bowfront.

Years ago, when I first began my fw hobby, there was no internet to seek advice, I learned through trial/error. So, when I didn't have any interaction from the forum, as I would have liked, I read alot, and like years ago, I just started doing things my way.

But, will alway's keep you in mind, thanks for trying to help. I'm sure, I'll have plenty more questions, hopefully forum can help, before I ask LFS

 

[jpsika08]

You're welcome AJK, and I think many will support me on this and almost first rule in the hobby, .... don't trust the LFS LOL

Take care and happy to help in anyway possible.

 

[nightfire76]

+1 everyone needs to relax and not get bent out of shape....remember there are those of us who care more bout a fish in this hobby then others might...i being one that does care alot and actually start feeling bad and helpless when i see a fish not doing well up to even dying.....but no matter which side you are on we all need to take a breath and chill a tad....side note i felt like POOP when my new firefish was bout to be taken out of the QT and into my DT and i couldnt get it with the net and it jumped out and onto my floor and i didnt notice it, then i saw him and poor thing was on the floor floppin around as i tried to get him and not hurt him......im happy to say he is doing awesomely in the DT and my pepermint shrimp and he share the same space anyways AJK its always best to wait and ask tons of questions then to not ask any and then run into problems

 

[bshady]

Save yourself time, money, and frustration and ask any question you want about the hobby. Sure sometimes RS is really busy and some posts might get over looked once in a while. Never trust the LFS and always be patient and do tons of research. Everyone on here is very understanding, friendly, and very knowledgeable. I will help you with any question you have within my means. Good Reefing

 

[Frankie]

Aye, hey,
Hows that fish doin' today!? Still in the land o' the li'in' or has he gone back t' Da'y Jones' Locker?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Almost every resource out there will tell you that cycling with a live fish is not the best method. Almost everyone here, especially the veterans, agrees. Almost everyone can have sporadic success with unorthodox methods, but almost everyone in the game long-term follows the norm and has a great and relaxing time in the hobby. I use "almost" qualifier because as you have found, there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions are not a rule, especially if they have only worked once.

I find it interesting that you call the culture of responsible and ethical aquarium husbandry a cult. Are doctors part of a cult because they strongly advise patients to diet and exercise, as if it's a necessity? You might not understand it, and you'll think so until you have diabetes and are 150lbs overweight. Are auto mechanics cultists because they tell you to get regular tune-ups and oil changes? You might think, until your engine starts grinding from old, worn oil. Are painters cultists because they put down painters tape and cover all furniture? Sure, you could paint your living room without covering your couch and taping seams.. it might seem much easier before you start, even. But after hour 4 of painting and constantly worrying about whether or not you've dripped paint on your 60" plasma TV, you'll have wish you took the 10 minutes to cover everything up. The same is true with this hobby. The things we are suggesting are useful down the line, and will make your life easier. In fact, the more advanced stages of the hobby are not possible without some advanced techniques. My long winded point is all of these suggestions we're making aren't rules by any stretch of the imagination.. they're guidelines that people have found out work, and work well. You can get away with not following them, but you're running on borrowed time. As we have said before, we've found in this hobby that what you're doing has an overwhelming rate of failure.

We're not giving you the advice we're giving you because we're all in on pranking you or getting you good.. we're not trying to make you go through extra effort because we're cruel or think it's good sport... we're trying to help. If we sound angry or argumentative, it's in a desperate attempt to make you realize the fish you put in your chemical cocktail of a tank is a living creature with feelings.. aside from that, we could care less what you do. Almost every noob who blows through here with your attitude is gone in a matter of a few months.. whether you listen to us and take our advice now, or realize we were right later when your tank crashes, we are right, so we're satisfied.

If you're eager to learn, stick around and read up. If you think you have all the answers with your 2 week old tank, go start your own forum. Either way, a combative attitude from someone who's an infant in the hobby will do you no good.

 

[BigAl07]

First of all I take some exception to your "not getting help" comments. Yes I'll probably be pouring some FUEL onto the fire but you have to understand how "this" forums works. . . More often than not the members (just like you) are here looking for something specific to help their tank/situation. Later on when they have some free time they will come back and read through threads and offer some advice. With most forums it's courtesy to wait at least 24hrs before you "Bump" or feel like your thread was accidently over looked. Let's break it down to real #'s

First Thread
26 gal bowfront
Started by AJK, 05-19-2011 08:53 PM
first reply is
05-19-2011 08:59 PM (6 minutes after thread was posted . . .)

Second Thread (17 minutes later)
i'm a newbie
Started by AJK, 05-19-2011 09:10 PM
Within 15 minutes there are some replies although they aren't exactly full of relevant information you have to remember it's getting late on the East Coast. By 4:34am you've been given a great and indepth reply by superfrog yet you don't answer it for what... 14hrs and 8 minutes.

Now here is where it gets interesting . . .
No replies in newbie section
Started by AJK, 05-20-2011 12:22 AM

After 3 hrs and 29 minutes from your original post you announce "No Replies". Within 7 minutes you had a very good reply followed by another one just a few hours later.

The only thread of yours that went unanswered was
Does anyone know what temps affect cycling
Started by AJK, 05-22-2011 10:04 PM
and that one was easy enough to find some type of answer in other threads using the search function. No I never found anything that specifically states "During the cycle the temp can go from X to Y " but one thing you must know about any Reef Tank is everything needs to be steady and constant day and night.




and this one

Believe me, I have done alot of research and reading, majority of the information is confusing.

It's ALL confusing at first. What you have to understand is that in some instances what works for one system GREAT might not work at all in another. This goes for lots of things but more often than not if you don't start off right with the basics the rest wont work right either. I think sas said it best when he suggested

first we build the foundation, later we put on the roof right?

If you learn nothing else from this endeavor you'll learn this

Either you'll be patient and learn to wait and watch or you'll be off finding yourself another hobby in a few months.

You said

Am I impatient or what. I'm sure I'm not the only one that couldn't wait 4-6 weeks for tank cycle.

NOTHING good happens quickly in a Reef tank. The faster you go (just like in racing) the HARDER you crash!


Also one lesson that took me a few weeks to learn was:

I've never gone by guidelines. My freshwater fish alway's did fine, a few day's after starting new tank. So, I figure saltwater fish would do fine too

Even though there are some vague similarities there is a WORLD of difference from FW to SW. For the most part you can disregard your FW experiences and start with a fresh slate on SW.


So to say things like

Understand what your sharing. But members willing to help or unwilling, is solely thier freedom of choice. I would like to learn all I can about responsible saltwater tanks

Learning takes time and patience.

No, not lonely. Just sometimes in life, when someone starts a new hobby, they enjoy interaction. Like I've been a member of an F-body forum, for years. Lot's of interaction and friendships. Many questions may be stupid to those that are experienced, and feel do not a reply, but to a newbie questions are important.

At RS we take great pride in not only the information we have already prepared for newbies
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...rs/33555-look-frequently-asked-questions.html but also in the fact that our culture is geared towards HELPING a new reefer and we try to meet reefers "Where they are...". It may not be immediate responses but it's rare something goes 24hrs without some type of response. There is a wealth of beginner information in these threads if you just take the time to search for it and read it. If you don't find it easily then by all means ask it and then be patient and the answer will usually come in a matter of hours. Remember this is FREE information and it's answered by people who have jobs and lives outside of the hobby. If you need customized and immediate Tech Support I'm sure we can work out a "Fee Based" program where you can email, text or even PHONE and get immediate help. If you provide your credit card or PayPal information I'll PM you my contact information and we can set up the contract later on today.

Have a good and happy REEFING day!!

 

[AJK]

Hi Frank,
Hope your day is well mate. Fish is doing wonderful. Thanks for asking

 

[AJK]

I find it interesting that you call the culture of responsible and ethical aquarium husbandry a cult.

Hi Joe,
The reason I call any following a cult is because, those that follow a cult only have one belief system. Not keeping an open mind, that other things can work.

Are doctors part of a cult because they strongly advise patients to diet and exercise, as if it's a necessity?

Yes, I believe doctors or anyone can start a cult following, I mean honestly. One has to view all factors before making a decision, two doctors can have two different opinions. There are doctors that truly care and then there are doctors out to make money, pushing diet supplements for companies (cult).

You might not understand it, and you'll think so until you have diabetes and are 150lbs overweight.

I do have diabetes my friend. The importance is, keeping diabetes under control, wheter a person is 50 lbs or 300 lbs,. This topic can be controversial as well.

Well, the way I see it is, a person can follow all the guidelines and stress themselves out to perfect a hobby or they can just enjoy and have fun, learn as they go.

I'll sum it up in one paragraph. If I desired expert advice on the topic of keeping saltwater tanks, I would get a degree in marine biology, or read books written by experts. I venture to forums for interaction and sharing experiences. Every topic in life is controversial, but the key is having fun, fish tanks are a hobby to me. Not every sw tank has identical equipment, size, lbs of sand, lbs of rock, so varying factors can change each person's experience. 10 people recieve 10 brand new identical cars, all 10 cars in 5 years will have different problems. One thing I learned in life is, nothing is gaurentee'd, even electronics have warranties.

We should all share experiences and have fun. Just because a person, chose a different method, does not mean they do not care or neglectful. I feel as long as my water conditions are stable, my fish will be fine. Most of the LFS I visit, have sw fish swimming in bare tanks, no live rock, no live sand, etc.... Just tanks filled with saltwater.

So, imagine a fish taken from the ocean, travel by air, ground, train, then transported into a LFS tank, till someone purchase which can be weeks or months. How many die before they reach a home sw tank ?

All information at forums are useful, wheter good or bad, but sorry no gaurentee it will make my life easier. I've already had 2 heater failures. Well, I've been told many decisions I've made would be failures, but turned out completely the opposite. Not encouraging my friend, but I know your intentions mean well

Well, I'm not a quitter, been maintaining fw tanks for 20 plus years. My personality loves success, regardless how many mistakes I make, and I alway's have fun at what I do.

Failure = success, without failure, one never learns.

If you're eager to learn, stick around and read up. If you think you have all the answers with your 2 week old tank, go start your own forum.

What's wrong with sharing my experiences at this forum ? If I had all the answers, I wouldn't have registered at this forum.

Well, the way I see it is, one should not judge, till they know the person. My attitude is just fine, seems those that oppose my methods have attitude problems.

Let's put it this way, you plan to build a new home, you look in the phone book for a home builder, every home builder has different methods in building homes, from thier own experiences. What worked for one builder, may not work for the next.

Let's all try to enjoy sw fish hobby :bouncer:

 

[AJK]

Hi BigAl,
Here's the deal. I've been visiting my independant LFS for 20 years for fw equipment, store owner helped me tremendously through the years. She has also maintained several beautiful sw reef tanks all the years I visit, I love to stare at while visiting. When I ask her questions, she provides detailed answers. She told me it is not necessary to cycle a tank for 4-6 weeks, and explained reasons why?

But here at the forum, I'm bashed for sharing my experience, then told to read, and stay away from LFS, that's the reason I refered to particular members following a cult. Not all independant LFS are ding dong's, many LFS owners answer questions at forums, and wouldn't be in business if they lack knowledge. Now, franchise LFS is a whole different story.

So, the point I'm trying to make is, I am grateful for any information/experiences I recieve from other members, but I shouldn't be bashed for the decisions I make. No one asked why? I made these decisions ? It's do it this way or hit the highway.

Thanks to all those, that have support me, regardless of guidelines, reefmack (Terry), Frank, Juan etc..... I plan to keep learning and share my experiences.

Thanks to all

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

AJK - here a good read... it was written by the owner of RS Travis Staut 10kFriendsArt.

I been following along... and I guess you started this thread... just to share how you decided to proceed (re-read 1st post & no questions were asked, just you sharing what you decided to do)

nothing new here... lots of lfs for years suggested people cycle tanks with a cheap fish & some still do (yours I guess), seems to me, you would see, there is a better way... rather than sharing that the old way is working for you (using a fish that often does die or is harmed and will live a shorter life, if he make it & I know some do)

I am sure you joined the forum to learn and enjoy sharing - RS has a great community of very nice members - that has as thier only goal wanting you to have success with your tank & fish and just pointing out there is a better way...

Sad to say... I feel like you didn't get as much interaction as you wanted to your 1st few post here, this topic provided interaction, even if negative.... and like cycling with a fish, imo - there a better way... to get feedback, without saying my way works & everyone is close minded to not acknowledge that.

Give you the last word... if you want to reply back & then I am thinking I will close this thread... as it really is now... you have told us how you are doing it & lots of other have said there a better way and I think the thread about run it course. Start a tank thread & post us some pics.

 

[DaveK]

AJK,

I think your missing some very important points.

Most important, the FW hobby is completely different from SW. This holds doubly true for reefs. It's to the point where you can almost forget everything you did in the FW hobby, and consider that your starting over from scratch. SW systems are very unforgiving, to the point where what might seem to be a very simple mistake wipes out the entire tank. Of course, that's possible to in FW also, but it takes a much bigger error.

As for LFS. When it comes to SW reef systems, almost all LFS are clueless. Now you might be lucky and have one of that small percentage that actually knows what they are doing. However, the best rule to follow is to assume that your LFS knows nothing, until they have proven themselves otherwise. Your far better off asking your questions here or on any other reef forum, and getting some knowledgeable opinions first. Then talk to your LFS, and at least you'll know what others are doing.

The people here really do want you to have a successful reef system, or other aquarium. Many have experience that runs decades, sometimes 20, 30 or more years. They have tried various ways of doing things. Through experience, sometimes bitter experience, they learned. They know exactly what they are talking about. What may seem like bashing to you is various members telling you that there is a better way of doing things.

The reason you don't get asked why you did something, is that in some cases, what your doing doesn't follow generally accepted reef keeping practices. For example, cycling a tank with live fish, while once fairly common, is just about completely discredited today. It's really not even considered a debatable subject. It's akin to a new FW person going back to the LFS and complaining how they did everything just right, filled the tank with tap water, and put the fish in and they all died.

 

[nightfire76]

as part of this topic and only this topic of cycling a tank with a live fish?....can you do it...yes ofcourse you can
can you cycle a tank with out fish?....yes you can because all that is needed is is a source of ammonia to kick start the cycle, which is what a live fish does.
when i cycled my now mixed reef tank i didnt use a live fish or even a deli shrimp like many apon many use...i just used some fish food and it cycled perfectly. the reason many apon many no longer use a live fish to cycle is simply cause it is not needed....thats the main fact, now the opinon of some is that cycling with a live fish is cruel cause if they dont die because of it then they can become harmed by it and or shorten their lives......another fact is that many of us are impatient and want to see fish and whatnot in the tank right away, but impatients in this hobby will ruin you if not burn you out cause it will only leead to fighting problems that could possibly be averted.......JMO

 

[steved13]

I really wish someone had closed this thread, because I know I should just stay away.

You might want to check the definition of cult.

From wikipedia:
The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre

Not a good way to make friends. We all believe if you throw a ball up in the air that it will probably fall back to earth...NOT a cult, even though we all believe the same thing. It has been proven that sending a fish through a cycle can and many times will injure the fish in terrible ways...not really a cult to wish to avoid this...better words might be compassion, caring, decency.

 

[DrugMonkeyRX]

I started my tank, all the wrong way's, tap water, water temp going up/down (heaters), toss sand in tank turning it milky, cycled 2 weeks, being the impatient person I am, I bought a blue damsel monday afternoon, along with some hermit crabs. Told LFS if fish dies, I know tank is not cycled.

I add my tank water to bag water for adjustment (LFS advice), then put fish in tank with bag, after awhile, fish came out on it's own, at first fish was in shock ! hardly swimming around, when I was going to bed, I was worried cause fish was hardly swimming, I wake up today, later in the morning, damsel is swimming all over tank, and still swimming along. I'm relieved

I've never gone by guidelines. My freshwater fish alway's did fine, a few day's after starting new tank. So, I figure saltwater fish would do fine too. Am I impatient or what. I'm sure I'm not the only one that couldn't wait 4-6 weeks for tank cycle.

Man you are in for a rude awakening on this crazy and expensive journey you are on.

 

[nightfire76]

We all believe if you throw a ball up in the air that it will probably fall back to earth..

shoots your ball and causes it to bust into millions of pieces....ha theres your gravity for ya lol

 

[steved13]

LOL, But...the ball still comes down, just in a million pieces