Coraljunkie's 54g Corner Reef

DianaKay

DianaKay

Princess Diana
RS STAFF
Very good video, makes me want to add some to my tank too!
Going to give it some thought as to where I could put them IF I get some.
I like the idea of these being light weight so they don't displace water volume much at all. :thumbup:
The ceramic shelves in my tank are heavy but they are extremely porous & provide as much good bacteria surface area as LR also.

Coraljunkie said:
:confused3:
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Anywhere you have them in your tank, will provide good additional filtration power, they do not have to have light. But the little round ones will not look so great in your DT. If you get the square one, you might could place it under your LR and make your rockscape taller. Just my idea, but I do think you need more surface area for filtration purposes Coraljunkie.
 
Coraljunkie

Coraljunkie

Well-Known Member
I bought the 2 quart box of them. I was only able to put about 20 of them in my tank. I hope that'll be enough, judging by the surface area that they claim it has I'm sure it'll be more than enough. Thanks for recommending them and thanks to everyone for your help so far.
 
sirrealism

sirrealism

Well-Known Member
I do use them and I love them. There has been some controversy about them. They work and no one can take that away from them. The issue seems to be that some people after a long time of using them start seeing decline and SPS start to die. A few people have sent water off to high end labs for testing and the tests come back with high aluminum amounts in there sample. This has happened to a couple close friends of mine in my local reef club. Now this is after 3+ years of using the blocks. The 3 people who claim this have removed the blocks and things are much better but have not sent samples back to the lab. Each one did have other issues with there water but the one thing that was the same for all was the high aluminum. Marine-pure says there is no aluminum in the blocks and that the high numbers is not from there product.
Do I still use the Blocks? Yes I do. Will I be putting them in my new 300g? No only because its going to be SPS dominant. Do I believe the blocks are an issue? I am on the fence. I can tell you or anyone else who will listen to me that they work better then anything else I have ever used and if there is an issue with them it does not show up for several years. The guys who have had issues are running ULN systems and 2 of the 3 needed to add P04 to there tank as the numbers where to low. "How the heck there numbers were to low is crazy" My one friends numbers for P04 were 0.0003 "this would show on hanna checker low P04 tester as 0.000" We need some P04 in our systems for things to grow.
What I am going to do now is every 6 months I am going to take them out for a month. During that month I will do larger water changes 25% each week and the block will dry and be cleaned. This will change out most of the water with out the block in to make sure I dont end up with high alum. As time goes by I am sure we will find the issue and in the mean time you have 3 years before I would even think about it.
 
Oxylebius

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
All great points sirrealism.

If this ceramic doesn't have aluminum in it, then it probably isn't the culprit. That is, if the manufacturer is telling the truth, which at this point I have no evidence to the contrary. But, I do wonder as the blocks get older, if it starts to degrade? And while degrading it releases stuff into the tanks water. If so, then buying a new block after a years time should counter act this issue.

I am more inclined to bet that these friends of yours may have used other products that are known to have aluminum in them. Aluminum is used to absorb phosphate, as such it is in many products available to absorb phosphate from our tanks. And those who have sps tanks usually try to keep phosphate levels really low and one way to do that is to use phosphate removing products. And one of the best products out there to remove phosphate are the ones w/aluminum in them b/c it is so effective: it produces results.

I just dug up two articles that I had read a while ago, thought you'd find them interesting:
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium
Product Review: Ferrous Oxide Phosphate Removers

From the articles, items to note include:
  • Most often, aluminum comes up during discussions of aluminum-based phosphate binding agents.
  • These aluminum oxide materials have been reported to cause negative reactions in certain corals, and one hypothesis that has been suggested is that aluminum is released that irritates the corals.
  • Aluminum is indeed released from one of these types of materials (Phosguard, sold by Seachem)
  • Inputs of Aluminum in Reef Aquaria can come from: Salt Mixes, Food, Ca and Alk supplements, and other items like phosguard
  • It appears that the release of aluminum could be the cause of the effects that some folks have seen in aquaria when using aluminum-based phosphate and silicate absorbing materials. However, only a larger study could definitively demonstrate that to be the case.
"For many years reef hobbyists have had success lowering excessively high phosphate levels with products such as SeaChem's PhosGuard. Some hobbyists, however, have avoided using this type of phosphate remover because they use aluminum oxides to bind the phosphate. Aluminum oxide does remove phosphate, but isn't an ideal product for a reef tank. First, while aluminum oxide can reduce seriously high phosphate levels, it often leaves enough phosphate in the water for nuisance algae to remain a problem. A second issue is the presence of aluminum in the filter material. The material has to be washed thoroughly to remove fine aluminum particles, but even if washed the material can increase aluminum levels in a tank."

Here is SeaChem's PhosGuard website listing aluminum in their product: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/PhosGuard.html
 
sirrealism

sirrealism

Well-Known Member
Oxy This has been talked about for quite some time. The guys who had this issue are some of the very best reefers I know and there tanks make mine look sick. There knowledge is far more then me. The one that I am closest to does not and has never used any GFO-P04 remover and makes his own food for the few fish he keeps "He only has fish for there poo" . He also does not use alk and cal. He has a cal reactor. "Not saying it could not come from the cal reactor". Salt is ESV. Also not saying it could not be the salt. What I am saying is we went through everything we could come up with and could not find it. Once he removed the block the tank and SPS made a big turn around and since has been doing fantastic. Now does that have to do with the fact that his P04 is now up to a normal level? very possible but the 3 of them swear it was the block. As you see I am not against the blocks and for every neg comment made I look for another reason. If you do a google search about it you will find others saying the same thing but again it could be other things causing it.
Sending samples to the lab has become very popular in my reef club as of late. The only 3 with high aluminum are the 3 using the blocks. Now that they are removed I wish they would retest with the lab.
I still want to say it took 3 years before there were any issues and the truth is most dont keep the same reef going for more then 3 years with out making a big change so I dont think its a big issue
 
Oxylebius

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
All very interesting. Thanks for the followup comments. Good points to be aware of when using this product.

As a followup, a search of the marinepure product shows that it is made out of aluminosilicate. The class of minerals containing aluminum oxide and silicon oxide is called aluminum silicates.
From the MarinePure FAQs page: http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-faq.php
What is MarinePure made of and will it leach anything into my water?
MarinePure is an inert aluminosilicate ceramic that has been fired over 1000°C. It will not leach into tank or pond water.

But, I wonder after time, if it does eventually leach into the water. Seems that you have three cases (and maybe more?) that this leaching is a possibility? Although it is anecdotal evidence, it is something to keep in mind.

If this is the case, perhaps not keeping it in the tank for a long period of time should be considered. Great to use in the short-term. And perhaps replacing the product periodically, maybe yearly, would also help.

A very interesting, but in depth chemical read on aluminum silicates and Zeolites here:
http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/~cchieh/cact/applychem/alsilicate.html
 
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Coraljunkie

Coraljunkie

Well-Known Member
Damn, I wish I knew this before i decided to add them to my tank. They're gonna be a pain to remove from that overflow compartment.
 
Oxylebius

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
I think your fine for now. Sounds like they are a great product and it is useful to know what to expect down the road. As sirrealism mentioned, he will be using them as well. Most products we use need to be changed out at some point, just think of it in that light.
 
sirrealism

sirrealism

Well-Known Member
Coraljunkie. Oxy is right. I still use them and will continue to use them. Even if they were an issue it would not show up for many years. If you read all of the posts you would see that i still believe in the product. I also wonder if it has anything to do with there systems being ULN The fact that there was so low P04. Maybe this has something to do with it. Also for every person who has said something bad about the product there is 10 who use it and love it.
 
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