Thanks Terry ! oops
- how did I manage to post this in this thread... thought I was in my tank thread... if a mod wants to move it...
Microbubbles in your RSM? Check here!
- Thread starter Reefmack
- Start date
Hi Guys
I have a microbubble problem I need some help with please, when my chiller is on I get MB but when I turn it off as well as my two power heads in then the bubbles clear up and I can turn the chiller back on and then the powerheads and it will fine fine for about 25 mins and then it starts blowing bubbles again.
I have a microbubble problem I need some help with please, when my chiller is on I get MB but when I turn it off as well as my two power heads in then the bubbles clear up and I can turn the chiller back on and then the powerheads and it will fine fine for about 25 mins and then it starts blowing bubbles again.
Hi Terry
This is really tough to try and get my head around but right now with the chiller pump off I don't get any MB, with the chiller pump on and the powerheads off I don't get any MB.
With pump on and both powerheads on I get MB and they appear to come from the chiller return pipe, I can hear air going through the chiller pump. But with power power heads off the return pipe bubbles clear out.
I watched the water level in the tank and it really doesn't change at all with things turned on and off.
Its really strange and I just think what to try next?
This is really tough to try and get my head around but right now with the chiller pump off I don't get any MB, with the chiller pump on and the powerheads off I don't get any MB.
With pump on and both powerheads on I get MB and they appear to come from the chiller return pipe, I can hear air going through the chiller pump. But with power power heads off the return pipe bubbles clear out.
I watched the water level in the tank and it really doesn't change at all with things turned on and off.
Its really strange and I just think what to try next?
To me it sounds like the bubbles are chiller generated, and with the 2 pumps running they get pulled through and blown into the tank. With the 2 pumps off any bubbles from the chiller may just be rising to the surface and popping in the back section. Does that make any sense?
Thanks Terry, makes sense but when I have all the pumps running and I look behind the tank where the chiller pipes return into the water I can see the micro bubbles in the back of the tank. When I turn off the powerheads and watch the chiller pipes the MB just vanish like they never existed.
Is there any rules to how deep the chiller return pipe must be in the back of the tank? Both pipes are cable tied together too, being as they are so close would that be an issue at all?
Any ideas?
Thank you
Stuart
Is there any rules to how deep the chiller return pipe must be in the back of the tank? Both pipes are cable tied together too, being as they are so close would that be an issue at all?
Any ideas?
Thank you
Stuart
RedSeaKev
RS Sponsor
Micro bubbles caused by pumps:
Hi All, Just a couple of thoughts, if you get a problem with Micro bubbles when using accessory pumps for external devices like coolers and fluidized reactors, make sure that pumps are not creating a vortex inside the chamber, this can be done easily by powerful pumps, if the suction is pointed towards the surface this can make things worse, if the need arises fit a coarse filter sponge which will help knock out the vortex as well, a quick swill in fresh water once a week will stop it going biological for all those concerned about that.
Hope this helps.
RedSeaKev
Hi All, Just a couple of thoughts, if you get a problem with Micro bubbles when using accessory pumps for external devices like coolers and fluidized reactors, make sure that pumps are not creating a vortex inside the chamber, this can be done easily by powerful pumps, if the suction is pointed towards the surface this can make things worse, if the need arises fit a coarse filter sponge which will help knock out the vortex as well, a quick swill in fresh water once a week will stop it going biological for all those concerned about that.
Hope this helps.
RedSeaKev
Good point by Kev. I'm also wondering if having the chiller pipes tied that closely together next to each other is causing the problem (plus not the most efficient cooling maybe?). The 2 pipes that close together may be creating a vortex that's pulling in air. Maybe with the 2 circ pumps off the bubbles are sucked back into the chiller feed line, and with the 2 pumps on the current pulls the bubbles through? I have no chiller, so I'm about out of ideas LOL!
I've also got the microbubble problem in my tank set up yesterday.
I've read this entire thread and this is what i think the problem is:
There is not enough NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head) for the circulation pumps causing cavitation inside the pump.
NSPH is essentially the amount of water you need ABOVE the impeller for the pump to work properly. If you don't have enough "head"/water level above the pump it will still work but may cavitate (creating the microbubbles within the pump itself)
This is why the problem goes away for some folks when they increase the water level up to the max in the pump chamber.
Adding tube length to the suction of the pumps will not affect the NPSH available. Only the water level has an impact on the NPSH.
These pumps/powerheads appear to be cheaply made and there could be some minor variances in the internal pump body which is why some folks seem to have less of a problem than others.
I've read this entire thread and this is what i think the problem is:
There is not enough NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head) for the circulation pumps causing cavitation inside the pump.
NSPH is essentially the amount of water you need ABOVE the impeller for the pump to work properly. If you don't have enough "head"/water level above the pump it will still work but may cavitate (creating the microbubbles within the pump itself)
This is why the problem goes away for some folks when they increase the water level up to the max in the pump chamber.
Adding tube length to the suction of the pumps will not affect the NPSH available. Only the water level has an impact on the NPSH.
These pumps/powerheads appear to be cheaply made and there could be some minor variances in the internal pump body which is why some folks seem to have less of a problem than others.
Hi again
Just to follow up from my post above, I have been playing about with my setup tonight, first I moved the pump in/out to the front of the tank....still bubbles. Then I eleminated the chiller and the bubbles have stopped!
So the MB are coming from my skimmer, anyone ever had this before? I really don't want to buy a new chiller, any ideas how I could fix this? Does this mean the chiller is sucking air? Surley I would have had a leak from it?
Help
Thanks
Stuart
Just to follow up from my post above, I have been playing about with my setup tonight, first I moved the pump in/out to the front of the tank....still bubbles. Then I eleminated the chiller and the bubbles have stopped!
So the MB are coming from my skimmer, anyone ever had this before? I really don't want to buy a new chiller, any ideas how I could fix this? Does this mean the chiller is sucking air? Surley I would have had a leak from it?
Help
Thanks
Stuart
Poriferan
Member
It is funny that you mention the cavitation issue. I have not read the entire thread, but I thought the same thing as I have been unsuccessful in stopping the problem in my tank. Has anyone found other pumps that will work to reduce or eliminate the problem? I have seen that others are used but is it helpful to stop the bubbles?
You might try going through the RSM 130 mods thread. Some have removed the 2 stock circ pumps and sunk other pumps down deeper in that chamber so that air couldn't be pulled into them.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/red-sea-max-owners-club/40252-rsm-130-130d-mods.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/red-sea-max-owners-club/40252-rsm-130-130d-mods.html
Hi guys
ok I fixed the issue somehow, I took the chiller fittings apart and used the white tape on all the connections, put it together again to still find some air, then I picked up the pump and suddenly it got worse so I tightened the pump connections and gave it a shake and a lot of mb came out and then it ran clear, so I used the new RSM adaptor I bought for the chiller fittings on the back of the tank and hooked it all up and it running great, finally no more bubbles. Needed to recalibrate the skimmer air inlet and the gate to allow a little more water in as I did still notice a few bubbles in the back.
Hope you guys manage to find out whats causing your mb's and can fix it, good luck.
ok I fixed the issue somehow, I took the chiller fittings apart and used the white tape on all the connections, put it together again to still find some air, then I picked up the pump and suddenly it got worse so I tightened the pump connections and gave it a shake and a lot of mb came out and then it ran clear, so I used the new RSM adaptor I bought for the chiller fittings on the back of the tank and hooked it all up and it running great, finally no more bubbles. Needed to recalibrate the skimmer air inlet and the gate to allow a little more water in as I did still notice a few bubbles in the back.
Hope you guys manage to find out whats causing your mb's and can fix it, good luck.
marine281
Member
I was having a few bubble probs when I went back to stock standard a few weeks ago, the skimmer was creating MBs, and the chiller return wasn't helping either!
I added about 6" of course square black sponge under the return pumps, problem solved
just a pain to take it out to rinse, but i'm prepared to do that for no bubbles!
I added about 6" of course square black sponge under the return pumps, problem solved
just a pain to take it out to rinse, but i'm prepared to do that for no bubbles!