Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Too sloppy imo.
My goal is to eliminate algae in my system, not harvest it. I use to think differently until I went outside the box and found probiotics.
Zeovit has shown me a whole new science in nutrient control. Cleaning algae for 8 years got old.
As far as the effectiveness of removing nutrients with ATS/refugiums, I think they work well. I also think it is a great way to learn about nature and how nature functions.
You don't see me using oneI like to know what Boomer, Frankie, and Prow think about the concept of a turf scrubber? Scale of 1-10 how effective/required is it? thanks
Too sloppy imo.My goal is to eliminate algae in my system, not harvest it. I use to think differently until I went outside the box and found probiotics.
Zeovit has shown me a whole new science in nutrient control. Cleaning algae for 8 years got old.
As far as the effectiveness of removing nutrients with ATS/refugiums, I think they work well. I also think it is a great way to learn about nature and how nature functions.
Boomer
Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Bad typing again
Should be
In regards to filtering after a FW bath the algae is going to shut itself down and do zip filtering. Another issue here for many plants is the chloride ion that also kills. On the same issue kinda', take a house plant and dump some SW in it and watch what happens to the plant If you have Mangroves watch what happens to them if the Mg++ ion is not at normal seawater ratio to Salinity. It will die if the Mg++ is to low, as the Mg++ ion protects it from the Cl- ion.
Algae scrubbers
That is a choice and real working opinion based on what you have and are trying to achieve. Some use them and some do not, same for skimmer vs. skimmerless or bare bottom vs. non-bare bottom or light y vs. light x. If I had my "choice" I would just assume not to have one. For me, the use of a refug is something is wrong with the system and there are to many nutrients and the corrective action for that is the guy looking in the mirror The tank and its occupants is not the issue 99.9 % of the time but the guy looking in the mirror We ALL have this problem Even the most advanced and famous reefers do have bad issues and tank crashes. You just may not hear about it but I do.
Prow
Thanks for the kinda short species list. I was just to lazy to look any up
Bad typing again
Should be
In regards to filtering after a FW bath the algae is going to shut itself down and do zip filtering. Another issue here for many plants is the chloride ion that also kills. On the same issue kinda', take a house plant and dump some SW in it and watch what happens to the plant
If you have Mangroves watch what happens to them if the Mg++ ion is not at normal seawater ratio to Salinity. It will die if the Mg++ is to low, as the Mg++ ion protects it from the Cl- ion.Algae scrubbers
That is a choice and real working opinion based on what you have and are trying to achieve. Some use them and some do not, same for skimmer vs. skimmerless or bare bottom vs. non-bare bottom or light y vs. light x. If I had my "choice" I would just assume not to have one. For me, the use of a refug is something is wrong with the system and there are to many nutrients and the corrective action for that is the guy looking in the mirror
The tank and its occupants is not the issue 99.9 % of the time but the guy looking in the mirror We ALL have this problem Even the most advanced and famous reefers do have bad issues and tank crashes. You just may not hear about it but I do.Prow
Thanks for the kinda short species list. I was just to lazy to look any up
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Well apparently you are right... I checked elsewhere too, and the agreement is that FW and SW algae are different, and also that FW (at the least) does not benefit the SW algae during cleanings in the sink (other that killing pods, of course).
Well apparently you are right... I checked elsewhere too, and the agreement is that FW and SW algae are different, and also that FW (at the least) does not benefit the SW algae during cleanings in the sink (other that killing pods, of course).
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Oky .now my scrubber is finshed and work in my sump, but my filters and skimmers is still on duty . and here some pictures for my scrubbers , its win 50 cm X 35 cm .this pic is from day one.and then i add more light you will see it next time i post a pic....
thanks for S.M
Oky .now my scrubber is finshed and work in my sump, but my filters and skimmers is still on duty . and here some pictures for my scrubbers , its win 50 cm X 35 cm .this pic is from day one.and then i add more light you will see it next time i post a pic....thanks for S.M
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Looks like a solid build. How strong is that bulb, and the new bulbs you are going add?
Looks like a solid build. How strong is that bulb, and the new bulbs you are going add?
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Update: Nutrients vs. Nutrition
It's important to understand the difference between these two words. "Nutrients" generally means Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things that you measure with your test kits, and which are also the things that nuisance algae feed on. "Nutrition", however, generally means food for corals and fish. Natural reefs in the ocean are high in "nutrition" (lots of food particles floating around), but low in "nutrients" (nitrate and phosphate). Aquariums that have skimmers, or other mechanical filters like foam or floss, are low in nutrition because the food is filtered out, but they are high in nutrients because the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate is not filtered. Aquariums that have only scrubbers are high in nutrition but low in nutrients. Aquariums with both skimmers and scrubbers are low in both nutrition and nutrients.
Update: Nutrients vs. Nutrition
It's important to understand the difference between these two words. "Nutrients" generally means Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things that you measure with your test kits, and which are also the things that nuisance algae feed on. "Nutrition", however, generally means food for corals and fish. Natural reefs in the ocean are high in "nutrition" (lots of food particles floating around), but low in "nutrients" (nitrate and phosphate). Aquariums that have skimmers, or other mechanical filters like foam or floss, are low in nutrition because the food is filtered out, but they are high in nutrients because the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate is not filtered. Aquariums that have only scrubbers are high in nutrition but low in nutrients. Aquariums with both skimmers and scrubbers are low in both nutrition and nutrients.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Well it is build to last , I am putting 3 energy saving 200 watt , one on each side of the scrubbe and guess what its looking to be light brown colour in just 3 days
during high levels of nitratr
About the light is that enought for twin 55x35 cm ?
When shoudl I clean my scrubber for the fist time ?
Thanks S.M
Well it is build to last , I am putting 3 energy saving 200 watt , one on each side of the scrubbe and guess what its looking to be light brown colour in just 3 days
during high levels of nitratr
About the light is that enought for twin 55x35 cm ?
When shoudl I clean my scrubber for the fist time ?
Thanks S.M
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Yes if you put that same bulb in the pic, on both sides (in addition to the one in the middle), it will work great. Just make sure flow is good, and the lights are turned off for six hours.
What is the screen material?
Clean one screen every seven days. Unless it fill up very thick... then reduce the number of days.
Yes if you put that same bulb in the pic, on both sides (in addition to the one in the middle), it will work great. Just make sure flow is good, and the lights are turned off for six hours.
What is the screen material?
Clean one screen every seven days. Unless it fill up very thick... then reduce the number of days.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Part 7 of 7:
"The Food of Reefs, Part 7: Dissolved Nutrients" by Eric Borneman
The Food of Reefs, Part Seven: Dissolved Nutrients by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
"Mucus consists of mainly sugars and glycoproteins - soluble materials in and of themselves. However, the formation of mucus, and its release in a matrix of chains of these materials, may result in a particulate material. This material is both utilized directly by many organisms, and also forms the basis for a predominant fraction of the particulate "marine snow" on reefs.
"In fact, reef waters are 30-40% higher in DOM [disolved organic matter] than oceanic waters.
"In terms of determining the degree to which organisms may use dissolved material as significant source of nutrition, one may examine the surface area of the outer cell membranes exposed to such materials. In general, the larger the absorptive area, the more likely organisms are to depend on absorption. Some cell surfaces are covered with many finger-like processes called microvilli that greatly increase the surface area of the membrane. Furthermore, the presence of cilia is often a good indicator of absorptive surfaces. Perhaps not surprisingly, corals have extensive microvilli and cilia.
"Corals are able to take up various forms of both organic and inorganic dissolved nitrogen.
"Even slightly elevated nitrogen levels can quickly result in rapid increases in the density of zooxanthellae, as they use it to fuel their own reproduction" [and thus turn the coral brown]
"It is also somewhat equivocal that corals are able to utilize nitrate (which exists nearly totally in its ionic state at physiological pH) at all, and an inability to find nitrate reductase in many studies, makes the ultimate importance of this dissolved nitrogen source to corals (and anemones) rather tenuous. However, it is unambiguously true that ammonium is a sought-after nitrogen source by both coral host and algal partner.
"Humic (refractory) compounds: These yellowing compounds are typically found at relatively high levels in aquaria, and they are removed with protein skimming and activated carbon. Humic materials have been thought to be relatively inert and unavailable for use as a nutrient source. However, studies have shown that organisms from bacteria to brine shrimp (Artemia salina) can utilize humic substances as a source of nutrients.
"In terms of corals reefs, the amounts of most dissolved nutrients, except carbon in most cases, are very low.
"The higher nutrient levels may cause corals and other symbiotic partnerships to decline as the partner algae preferentially utilize the increased nutrient sources to the expense of the host. [and thus browning of the coral occurs]
"Without question, corals and many reef organisms are able to utilize dissolved nutrients to help meet their energy requirements and to use in tissue growth.
Part 7 of 7:
"The Food of Reefs, Part 7: Dissolved Nutrients" by Eric Borneman
The Food of Reefs, Part Seven: Dissolved Nutrients by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
"Mucus consists of mainly sugars and glycoproteins - soluble materials in and of themselves. However, the formation of mucus, and its release in a matrix of chains of these materials, may result in a particulate material. This material is both utilized directly by many organisms, and also forms the basis for a predominant fraction of the particulate "marine snow" on reefs.
"In fact, reef waters are 30-40% higher in DOM [disolved organic matter] than oceanic waters.
"In terms of determining the degree to which organisms may use dissolved material as significant source of nutrition, one may examine the surface area of the outer cell membranes exposed to such materials. In general, the larger the absorptive area, the more likely organisms are to depend on absorption. Some cell surfaces are covered with many finger-like processes called microvilli that greatly increase the surface area of the membrane. Furthermore, the presence of cilia is often a good indicator of absorptive surfaces. Perhaps not surprisingly, corals have extensive microvilli and cilia.
"Corals are able to take up various forms of both organic and inorganic dissolved nitrogen.
"Even slightly elevated nitrogen levels can quickly result in rapid increases in the density of zooxanthellae, as they use it to fuel their own reproduction" [and thus turn the coral brown]
"It is also somewhat equivocal that corals are able to utilize nitrate (which exists nearly totally in its ionic state at physiological pH) at all, and an inability to find nitrate reductase in many studies, makes the ultimate importance of this dissolved nitrogen source to corals (and anemones) rather tenuous. However, it is unambiguously true that ammonium is a sought-after nitrogen source by both coral host and algal partner.
"Humic (refractory) compounds: These yellowing compounds are typically found at relatively high levels in aquaria, and they are removed with protein skimming and activated carbon. Humic materials have been thought to be relatively inert and unavailable for use as a nutrient source. However, studies have shown that organisms from bacteria to brine shrimp (Artemia salina) can utilize humic substances as a source of nutrients.
"In terms of corals reefs, the amounts of most dissolved nutrients, except carbon in most cases, are very low.
"The higher nutrient levels may cause corals and other symbiotic partnerships to decline as the partner algae preferentially utilize the increased nutrient sources to the expense of the host. [and thus browning of the coral occurs]
"Without question, corals and many reef organisms are able to utilize dissolved nutrients to help meet their energy requirements and to use in tissue growth.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
the screen material is plastic
and i will send a pictuers for my first time cleaning soon
and i have another question for u.
i found my sump buttom colouerd green and all the surroundded glass too
its algee grouing up .. is that oky or should i clean it too or leave it to grow .like the one on the display glass grow???
thanks for your support
the screen material is plastic
and i will send a pictuers for my first time cleaning soon
and i have another question for u.
i found my sump buttom colouerd green and all the surroundded glass too
its algee grouing up .. is that oky or should i clean it too or leave it to grow .like the one on the display glass grow???
thanks for your support
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
If algae is growing everywhere, it is because your light needs a reflector. Get a reflector that puts all the light on the screen. This will stop algae from growing on the bottom and sides of the sump.
If algae is growing everywhere, it is because your light needs a reflector. Get a reflector that puts all the light on the screen. This will stop algae from growing on the bottom and sides of the sump.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Update: Other ways to reduce nutrients
If you are using a scrubber, here are some other permanent ways to reduce nutrients (aside from feeding less), starting with the easiest first:
o Remove floss/foam/socks (they trap food and cause it to rot).
o Remove chaeto (also traps food and causes it to rot).
o Remove bio balls (or similar media) slowly (they create excess nitrate, and trap food).
o Remove all sand in your sump (food settles in sand and rots); if anything, use LR.
o Use kalkwasser (lime water) in your top-off (the higher pH causes phosphate to precipitate).
o Change any area of the sump that lets food settle to the bottom; all food should
continue through the sump and back to the display (this is why an open sump is best).
o Reduce sand in your display to 1/4 inch (6mm), or increase it to 4 inches (10cm).
o Using an ultraviolet sterilizer also helps reduce phosphates, but it also kills the live
pods that come from the scrubber; thus it's not recommended for normal use.
Update: Other ways to reduce nutrients
If you are using a scrubber, here are some other permanent ways to reduce nutrients (aside from feeding less), starting with the easiest first:
o Remove floss/foam/socks (they trap food and cause it to rot).
o Remove chaeto (also traps food and causes it to rot).
o Remove bio balls (or similar media) slowly (they create excess nitrate, and trap food).
o Remove all sand in your sump (food settles in sand and rots); if anything, use LR.
o Use kalkwasser (lime water) in your top-off (the higher pH causes phosphate to precipitate).
o Change any area of the sump that lets food settle to the bottom; all food should
continue through the sump and back to the display (this is why an open sump is best).
o Reduce sand in your display to 1/4 inch (6mm), or increase it to 4 inches (10cm).
o Using an ultraviolet sterilizer also helps reduce phosphates, but it also kills the live
pods that come from the scrubber; thus it's not recommended for normal use.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Update: Screen roughness
If your screen is only growing little spots of algae here and there, it means the screen is not rough enough. What is happening is that algae is trying to attach and grow all over the screen, but the water washes the algae away. Only a few areas have enough roughness for the algae to hang on in the water flow. So, you need to remove the screen and really really really sand/scrape/rough it up. If it's a clear screen (i.e., acrylic), you should not be able to see through it. If it's a plastic canvas screen, it should feel prickly. For highest results (and highest maintenance)... rug canvas works the best, but it only lasts so long before it comes apart. Then you have to make a new one. Whatever you use, make it as rough as possible.
Update: Screen roughness
If your screen is only growing little spots of algae here and there, it means the screen is not rough enough. What is happening is that algae is trying to attach and grow all over the screen, but the water washes the algae away. Only a few areas have enough roughness for the algae to hang on in the water flow. So, you need to remove the screen and really really really sand/scrape/rough it up. If it's a clear screen (i.e., acrylic), you should not be able to see through it. If it's a plastic canvas screen, it should feel prickly. For highest results (and highest maintenance)... rug canvas works the best, but it only lasts so long before it comes apart. Then you have to make a new one. Whatever you use, make it as rough as possible.
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Successes Update:
Macman on the RF site: "To show how affective these scrubbers are I have carried out a little experiment. As you may know I have been running a small 180 litre tank fully stocked with corals and fish, running an external filter and an internal filter. My nitrates have always been between 7 and 12, but I recently had a death of one of my fish and corals which put the nitrate through the roof (and I mean through the roof!) Between 80 and 100 VERY SERIOUS. I decided with my new 7 week old 400 litre tank (which only runs a scrubber) and has nitrates at <1 to carry out a few water exchanges [between the new and old tanks]. I exchanged approximately 80-100 litres in about 5 days, and saw my nitrates go from <1 to nearer 50 in the new tank (A little worrying, but to be expected when considering the concentration of nitrates in the smaller tank). That [nitrate] test was carried out on 12th March. I carried out the same [nitrate] test last night, 25th March, on the scrubber tank and my nitrates are 25. Like I said before this tank has only a scrubber within its system, and live rock. The only thing I did notice [on the new tank] before the water exchange was that I was getting to a period where I was getting a nice light green algae build up on the scrubber, and once I had done the water exchange the algae went back to a dirty black/brown on the scrubber. Only this morning have I started to see a little green again, so it has set me back a few weeks. This system does work and this proofs it. I must admit I was a little concerned when my water went near to 50, but the scrubber came good for me."
Melonbob on the LR site: "Well, just figured I'd update my success story. February 2nd I set up my algae scrubber, and clean one side every friday. I've gone from at least 30-40 nitrates down to less than 5 as of todays test! And lets just say I'm very lazy with water changes.......lol! I'm jazzed!"
Creetin on the SRC site: "day 60 update...! i prolly will stop counting the days but so far i have to say 2 months into the scrubber thingy and i am totally sold on it! its amazing such a great kick algae ###### idea has remained eluded from most of us...so SM, allow me to say that you are truly my idol!!! This has got to be one of the single most important 'discoveries' being revealed...."
Successes Update:
Macman on the RF site: "To show how affective these scrubbers are I have carried out a little experiment. As you may know I have been running a small 180 litre tank fully stocked with corals and fish, running an external filter and an internal filter. My nitrates have always been between 7 and 12, but I recently had a death of one of my fish and corals which put the nitrate through the roof (and I mean through the roof!) Between 80 and 100 VERY SERIOUS. I decided with my new 7 week old 400 litre tank (which only runs a scrubber) and has nitrates at <1 to carry out a few water exchanges [between the new and old tanks]. I exchanged approximately 80-100 litres in about 5 days, and saw my nitrates go from <1 to nearer 50 in the new tank (A little worrying, but to be expected when considering the concentration of nitrates in the smaller tank). That [nitrate] test was carried out on 12th March. I carried out the same [nitrate] test last night, 25th March, on the scrubber tank and my nitrates are 25. Like I said before this tank has only a scrubber within its system, and live rock. The only thing I did notice [on the new tank] before the water exchange was that I was getting to a period where I was getting a nice light green algae build up on the scrubber, and once I had done the water exchange the algae went back to a dirty black/brown on the scrubber. Only this morning have I started to see a little green again, so it has set me back a few weeks. This system does work and this proofs it. I must admit I was a little concerned when my water went near to 50, but the scrubber came good for me."
Melonbob on the LR site: "Well, just figured I'd update my success story. February 2nd I set up my algae scrubber, and clean one side every friday. I've gone from at least 30-40 nitrates down to less than 5 as of todays test! And lets just say I'm very lazy with water changes.......lol! I'm jazzed!"
Creetin on the SRC site: "day 60 update...! i prolly will stop counting the days but so far i have to say 2 months into the scrubber thingy and i am totally sold on it! its amazing such a great kick algae ###### idea has remained eluded from most of us...so SM, allow me to say that you are truly my idol!!! This has got to be one of the single most important 'discoveries' being revealed...."
kouma
Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin
Hello,
I loved your idea and I wanted to implement it, however I didn't want to change the look of my tank or sump, so I did the following which does not require a pump, a bucket, pipes, etc. It uses the waterfall effect generated by our overflows.The piece of plastic I used to collect the algae is 7" wide and 21" long, and the light I used is a 10K JBL 18W 20" long in a waterproof container that sits parallel to the plastic piece. Here are the pics, tell me what do you think.
Here is how the full setup looks like:
Here is the waterfall effect:
A closer look at the compete system:
I just started this today, so I will give it a week or so and see the grow of algae.
Thanks, F.
Hello,
I loved your idea and I wanted to implement it, however I didn't want to change the look of my tank or sump, so I did the following which does not require a pump, a bucket, pipes, etc. It uses the waterfall effect generated by our overflows.The piece of plastic I used to collect the algae is 7" wide and 21" long, and the light I used is a 10K JBL 18W 20" long in a waterproof container that sits parallel to the plastic piece. Here are the pics, tell me what do you think.
Here is how the full setup looks like:
Here is the waterfall effect:
A closer look at the compete system:
I just started this today, so I will give it a week or so and see the grow of algae.
Thanks, F.