Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: Builders

Scrubber builders are needed, because many folks on different forums are wanting to try a scrubber, but they don't want to (or can't) build them. So if you are available to build a scrubber of any kind (sump, bucket, acrylic, LED, etc), pm me and I'll put you in the builder database.
 

Heiser

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

After my battle with algae and many packs of algone later I finally decided to build one of these turf algae scrubbers. I had the oppurtunity of visiting inland aquatics and was blown away by their turf scrubbers in use and the coral they had growing. I measured my nitrates after the build and they were ~160.
sump.jpg

sump and tank.jpg

tank.jpg

algae.jpg

algae 2.jpg
 

ScubaDrew

Well-Known Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I'd like to post some info since this thread was helpful in my research in building one of these scrubbers. I built a small one using the basic plans posted in the first few pages. I used a dremmel to cut the slot in the PVC and used fishing line through the small holes in the plastic divider material to hold it up.
My tank measured 0’s in all the algae related categories prior to building it, but my tank was still growing a lot of HA and some cyano.
I’ve only got one florescent ‘flood’ style light on one side of the scrubber right now due to having placed it in an already crowded sump.
I had a full coat of algae in about 10 days, and cleaned off about ¾ of what had accumulated at that time. Now I need to clean off a large, heavy, handful every week!
With continued cleaning in my DT, I’ve really made progress in getting the DT algae free.
Thanks for the info, I think the ATS will be a part of my system for a long time to come.
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Heiser: The nitrate should come down in two or three weeks. Make sure you really roughed up the screen with sandpaper; so much so that you can't see through it.

Scuba: That's great to hear, that the algae in your display is going away!
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: Sideways Spray Protection

If you think there may be times when you cannot clean your screen on time (at least once a week), you may want to protect it from sideways spray. Sideways spray can sometimes happen if you let the algae continue to grow up into the slot. The easiest protection is when you clean it; clean the part at the top, about a half inch (13mm) away from the slot, very thoroughly. Don't leave any algae behind at all. This way the algae will take longer to get thick here. You will lose a bit of filtering, but it won't sideways-spray as soon. Also, clean every bit of algae out of the slot/pipe, for the same reason. The other solution is to attach solid or flexible plastic strips to the side of the pipe, which will stop any spraying. And ideally, the strips should block light too, so that nothing grows into the slot in the first place:

UserSaltCrittersOnTR-1.jpg



UserJohntanjmOnSG-12.jpg
 

Heiser

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Is there any recommendations for a material to build the sideways spray protector out of? I'd like to build one to keep the light away from the slot as well and needed a few ideas on materials and how to attach it.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Best would be a strip of opaque plastic, glued along the sides of the pipe. They would be strong and would not be damaged during cleaning.
 

ScubaDrew

Well-Known Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

story about sideways spray:

I sprung out of bed last week to the screeching of my high-water level alarm. This thing is like an over caffeinated fire alarm, very loud. I raced to the tank expecting to see water all over my hardwood floors. Nothing. I opened the stand and expected to see water pouring over the edges of my sump. Water level was fine.

I turned off the high water alarm and then noticed a single spout of spray landing directly on the water level alarm sensor... argh!

I clean the screen at the top with a little brush and it seems to be fine now.
 

Stormrider

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

/\ Good thing that you weren't out of town for the week :eek:
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: CFL Reflectors

When I see a regular CFL bulb (not a floodlight) being used, I always say that it needs a reflector. Although it would just be easier to use CFL floodlight (which does not need a reflector), below are some reflectors you can use with regular CFL bulbs. You can find many others by searching for "CFL reflector", or by going to any hydroponics or gardening store:
Reflectors - Hydroponics UK, Hydroponics Systems & Grow Lights
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Part 6 of 7:

"The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter" by Eric Borneman
The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com

"This article will address a very important food to corals and many other animals, particulate organic material (POM). This food source has many names, including detritus [waste], floculant organic matter, reef snow, marine snow, and suspended organic material.

"Not so long ago, marine aquarists made every attempt to be assured that their water column was "polished." I never fully understood the term, but the premise was that a clean water column was a good water column. Various means were employed to accomplish this, including the use of various power filters, mechanical flosses and screens, sterilizers, ozonizers, canister filters, diatom filters, foam fractionators [skimmers] and many other devices. [However] "polished" water might not be in the best interest of reef tanks or corals.

"Particulate organic material has its origins in life, being composed by and large of the remains, secretions and excretions of living organisms. On coral reefs, it is composed mostly of dead algae, bacteria, mucus, and feces.

"When food, waste, or other particulate organic matter (POM) is trapped, especially in an aerobic environment, it is acted upon by several types of bacteria that break down the substances into more basic dissolved organic and inorganic components. Some of these breakdown components are organic acids and refractory compounds that can impart a yellow tint to the water column. This yellowing has been called "gelbstoff." However, both the substances remaining after [various types of] filtration, as well as the substances removed by the filtration, can be utilized by the life in the aquaria, and are taken up by corals, sponges, some other invertebrates, phytoplankton, bacteria, and algae.

"On reef slopes and crests, the [waste] material is mostly coral mucus, while over the reef flats and lagoons, the material is mostly algae and fecal matter. This material, by itself, has a high carbon content. However, it acts as a substrate for bacteria, ciliates, cyanobacteria, and other microorganisms that coat the particles. Bacteria can even convert dissolved organic material (DOM) into particulate organic material (POM) by aggregating it in the presence of carbon. This provides a substantially enriched particle replete with amino acids and valuably higher nitrogen content. As such, detritus [waste] becomes a very nutritious food source for many organisms. It is such a complex "dirt", that detritus has been described as a completely self-contained microhabitat of its own, with plant, animal and microbial components, and its own "built-in" nutrient source.

"Another major consumer group of detritus is the zooplankton. These small animals, themselves a very important food sources to reef consumers, have been found to have 90% of their gut contents composed of detritus. Mucus-producing animals, like corals, tend to trap detritus, and the material is either removed or consumed by ciliary action across the tissue surface. Many fish also consume coral mucus, and any attached particulate organic material"

"Detritus [waste] forms the basis of several food webs that are part of a balanced autotrophic/heterotrophic community. It also plays a role in establishing various levels of nutrient production and decomposition. It is this material that is the principal food source for the many bacterial species that work in various nitrification and denitrification activities. Before reaching the microbial community, however, it acts as a food source for the smaller consumers such as amphipods, copepods, errant polychaetes, protozoans, flagellates, ciliates and other animals whose activities contribute to the stability and productivity of a coral reef and a coral reef aquarium.

"It is the microbial community, though, that is most important in the detrital processes. On the reef, the productivity of bacteria (both aerobic and anaerobic oxidation and reduction, including important sulfate reduction) depends heavily on detritus. Without this microbial community, coral reefs would cease to exist.

"Corals, in particular, are notable for their consumption of detritus. All corals studied feed to some degree on POM, and coral communities have been found to remove half of the POM present on some reefs. So prevalent is this material, that it is termed "reef snow" in the wild. [...] Given the ability of so many corals to consume and utilize this material, along with its relatively high abundance and ability to provide up to 100% of corals' carbon and nitrogen requirements, it may now (hopefully) seem rather foolish to attempt to remove this material from aquaria.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Here is a Nano hang-on-back or hang-on-top box scrubber that somebody could build to sell. That is the reason for the tighly fitting lid, and the built-in pump; no decisions or adjustments are needed by the customer. After building it, you could buy a banner ad on this site to sell them.

However if you were just building it for yourself, you can make the lighting simpler by just setting a T5HO light fixture on top of the box (although you would not get the benefit of the noise and light being sealed off by the lid), and you could make the pump simpler by just putting the pump in the tank (up near the waterline):

NanoHorizontal.jpg





I'm not providing any links or part numbers, because it's up to the person building it to make sure that everything works together properly (it's not a beginner's project). Here are a few notes:


This scrubber MUST be placed above the tank, so it drains down into the tank.

The overflow drain must be lower than the bulbs.

The pump must be self-priming, capable of pulling water up 12" or so from the tank.

There should be no holes in the sides or bottom of the box, except for the drains; all other tubing and wires should come out of the top of the box. This will eliminate any possibility of leaky connections.

Two bulbs will provide more filtering than one will. And if you can fit three, all the better. 12" T5 bulbs are only 8 watts each.

The screen needs a solid backing, with some plastic canvas laid on over it.

The mounting brackets could hook onto the top of the nano, or they could be made into extended legs that go all the way down to the cabinet. Or, the whole box scrubber could be set on top of the nano, and be moved as needed.

The pump should be able to run "dry" without burning up.

The upflow-tubing should not go very far into the display; maybe a half inch or so. This limits how much water can be pulled out of the tank if there is a problem.

The size shown, 13.5" X 3" X 3", gives a one-sided screen of about 40 square inches. This will fit neatly behind (and on top of) a typical 6 or 8 gal nano without sticking out, but will also provide enough filtering for an 18 gal nano that gets weekly cleanings. For 24 gal and larger, use two separate scrubbers. This has the added benefit of redundancy, and, allows you to keep one running while the other one grows back after cleaning.

Overflow protection test: (1) plug up the drain at the bottom of the screen; the water should rise and start going out the overflow drain without spilling out of the lid, and it should not get high enough to touch the bulbs. (2) Now, also plug up the overflow tube. The pump should start running dry before the box spills, if you placed the upflow tubing high enough in the tank.

The T5 sockets should be the "waterproof" type, they keeps spray and salt out. They are not really "waterproof", but they are made for aquarium use.



Basic costs of building one (multiples would be cheaper)...

Box w/lid: $40
Pump: $35
2 Bulbs: $15
Sockets: $20
Ballast: $35
Misc: $40
---------------
Total: $185 USD
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: N and P are invisible:

It's important to know/remember that Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what your test kits read, and which are also what causes the nuisance algae to grow in your tank, are invisible. You can see the results of the nitrate and phosphate; it's the nuisance algae. But you cannot see the nitrate and phosphate itself. This fact causes the most problems when people see a lot of stuff (food) that their skimmers have removed, but wonder why their nuisance algae is not being removed (skimmers don't remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate), and also when their phosphate tests zero, but they still have algae on certain parts of the rocks (the invisible phosphate is coming out of the rocks.)
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: FW cleanings

Pods eating the algae: The reason you need to run freshwater over your screen every week is because you want to kill the baby pods that start to grow and eat the algae. You may not see the eaten areas, unless the algae is very thin like this:

UserJasonOnAR-1.jpg


However, pods are always growing and multiplying. And they eat algae. The reason this is a problem is that (1) pods are constantly flowing out of your scrubber into the tank. If they eat algae first, then the nitrate and phosphate that is in that algae gets released back into the water, and (2) you now have less algae to do the filtering. Unlike the picture above, however, the algae is usually too thick for the eaten areas to be seen. The pods stay out of the light, in the underlying layers; so you don't see what they are eating. By cleaning your screen in freshwater, you kill the pods that are on your screen. They will start multiplying again within a few minutes, but at least you can keep them under 7 days old. And even if you clean only half of the screen each week, you still want to wash the whole screen in FW.
 

markm3

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

oky i am on the step of choosing what kind of light ,,i have found 3 options my turf net is twin nets each r 30 cm x 55 cm.....
1, plant bulb 120 watt flood ( pic 1 )
2, floresent bulb energy saving 200 watt ( pic 2 )
3, DOPHIN ALUMINIUM ALLOT LIGHT CASING about 40 watt ( pic 3 )
please recommend me one of these?
thanks
 

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SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Pic 2: Put two of these on both sides, with a reflector.

or

Pic 3: Put two of these on both sides.

Whichever one, keep it within 4 inches of the screen.
 

Stormrider

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Question, if pods live going through the pump that supplies the alge scrubber why wouldn't they live going through the pump in the sump?
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

They do. But nobody knows how many.
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Successes Update:

sean48183 on the SWF site: "Alright, just tested NO3 and ta da! 0 NO3! Awesome. Still have some hair algae in display, but appears to have slowed down. My scrubber is still getting mostly brown slime and some green. Don't really care. It is working. Have to clean every couple days because it is growing so fast. Anyone who is debating trying -- quit debating and just do it."

RiaanP on MASA site: "Scrubber running now for four weeks. NO3 0mg/l (first time EVER). PO4 between .025 and 0.5 mg/l. 4 weeks ago NO3 was over 100 mg/l and PO4 was over 2 mg/l. So a scrubber really works."
 
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