Wet Foam vs. Dry Foam

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Its a mix TG, algae, organics at several levels of degradation, doc's and so on. If you have a larger peice of waste, it rises up the foam colum, but its weight forces it back down, sliding from bubble to bubble and never really getting to the collection cup. Going with a wetter foam increases the speed of the foam rising in the tube, this increases the chances of the larger particles making it to the top. In the dry foam concept you do the same but just further down the tube, but by the time it gets to the top it is dry and all the larger particles have dropped back into the water, what we are doing, is allowing what would normally be dry foam to form in the 5 gallon bucket that all the skimmate goes to??? make sence

Mike
 

Witfull

Well-Known Member
i have skimmed FW successfully. i had i 10' diy skimmer with dual venturi's driven by 2 iwaki pumps. the reason it was successsful was that it was on a 500g feederfish system. that much slimecoat will foam!
 

tankgirl

Active Member
Thanks, Scott and Mike!!! It's so nice to get answers to questions like these.

So, what's the dark stuff (if proteins are clear)?
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Things to read on the physics and chemistry of foam fractionation.

Aquatic Systems Engineering: Devices and How They Work by P.R.Escobal ( an old friend of mine and a former NASA Aeronatuical Enigneer, worked on the Apollo Spoace Program and at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Two chapters on skimmers, both are very deep technically. Get the Calc book out :D

Seawater Systems : The Captive Enviroment by Steven Spotte

Captive Seawater Fishes: Science and Technology,by Steven Spotte

Ion Flotation by F. Sebba

Mike

The HSA protein skimmer has once again moved Marine Technical Concepts


But Leo does make really good stuff :D

Jerel

We pretty much agree on things

Some people think we are evil-twins :lol:
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
It has to do with ORP, our next discussion!

Lets not stir up a hornets nest, it is winter, so they are sleeping:D
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
But Leo does make really good stuff
Great stuff actually. I had a long conversation with leo about a calcium reactor, took an hour to get a no. He is a smart puppy.

Mike
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
TG

That is a great link, thanks :D

Mike

I proposed new idea/theory to Leo for his O2 reactors operation, which he used in his advanced model :p Yes, Leo makes really great stuff. I always recommend it. You should see the toys he has in his basement that he invented for reef tanks, that never got brought to the market. You would amazed.
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
LOL I can bet I ran one of thier reactors for about 5 years, it was always a solid unit. I modified it once and called Leo to ask him about it and he wouldnt talk to me, lol. You got to love a guy that is passionate about his products.

Mike
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
The one I did for him did not use "bio-bail" but an industrial spray nozzle, that atomized the water, so no need for media. Tower looked like a big fog column, where the fog was just tumbling around. I had Bill Giest of Lumar Tech. custom build a 3 footer for me 6 " in dia. , ran it at 20 psi..........scary, as O² increases with increasing pressure.

OK, brake time over back to the basement....had a minor flood the other day.

Car also BO, not a good week for Boomy............
 

tankgirl

Active Member
Wow! I got some additional excellent explanations over at the ReefTank! One of the frustrating but probably good things about me is tenacity - I just won't quit until I really understand the reasons for something, can't simply take someone's word for it - gotta know why.

More About WHY Wet Foam is Better Than Dry Foam:

Spanky:
This is without a doubt the hardest thing I've even had to explain - without using lots of hand motions! LOL

Yes dark, dry skimmate is more concentrated that wet skimmate. Because it takes longer for it to get concentrated?? Ok that didn't work, let me try that again.

Let's say you pass your water through the skimmer once every hour. It takes 12 hours to make dark concentrated skimmate, so your tank water has passed through the skimmer 12 times to remove that.
Then if you remove wet skimmate at the same volume you're removing more with each pass through the skimmer even though it's less concentrated.

Nope not there yet!

OK OK try this.

Even though you're removing wet skimmate and it's less concentrated than the dry, you're removing more things faster.

I give up!! can't do it. LOL ask Mike.

It's dark because it's organics and bacteria.
-----------------------------------
galleon:
Wet = Faster Removal of crap = better
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wizardgus:
Let me try, I'll botch it up a bit, but you can fix it for me.

IIRC, the way a skimmer basically works is certain things are attracted to and adhere to the surface tension of the bubbles/foam. Not all things we want to remove from the water are equally attracted or as well attached. With a dry foam, those things less attracted are able to basically fall off before reaching the skimmer cup.
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mad_coder:
there's probably some loss of crud the longer it has to wait around to concentrate, which means if you want to remove the most crud, remove wet foam.
-----------------------------------------

Those guys are Good!!! Kudos to them!
 

Scooterman

Active Member
Thanks for all that information TG, can you summarize what you've found from all your research, I'd like to see your opinion on this matter?
 

Craig Manoukian

Well-Known Member
Ditto on the request TG. There seems to be some differing opinions and I'd like to confirm whather that is due to better and more recent information. Haven't had time to study, er must be lazy, eh?

:) :D :cool: ;) :p :smirk:
 

tankgirl

Active Member
Okay-
Bottom Line is: it depends on your tank and goals.

Just what Mike (& you, Craigy) said:
no two tanks are alike, skimming requirements will be different

If you run an SPS tank and want the cleanest possible tank water -
Wet Is Better.

If you run a zo (or softie) tank or a nano:
Dry Could Be Better.

Your salinity can take a hit - but we should all be checking that often, anyway. Ditto for additives.

And, just a disclaimer: if your skimmer overflows (running wet foam), it can poison your tank by dumping all that concentrated gunk in your tank.
 
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