Starting a new tank with dried out live rock?

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Once you add fish to a cycled tank you will be fine, they will have waste & you will be feeding them. If you want to wait longer, just add another deli shrimp - when you add a cuc, it will be gone over night

One more good read...
http://reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-mature-aquarium.29836/

leebca:
The Mature Aquarium
One of the most common errors new aquarists make is to try and rush their tank in order to stock it. It's understandable. Often the purchase of a marine aquarium is a more or less spontaneous or impulsive event and the newbie wants instant fish swimming merrily around. This, however isn't Nature's way. The whole starting up process of a marine aquarium is dependent upon Nature, and Nature has its own time schedule.

Rushing the process can produce sick livestock, stressed livestock, injured livestock and aquarium crashes, together with outbreaks of a variety of nuisance microbes and algae.

A normal sequence of events, and what is happening, goes something like this:
1. Tank and equipment is up and running for first time.
Some time must pass for everything to run and settle in to its life-long pattern. The aquarist has to be sure that the lights are on/off when wanted, the pumps are doing their job, flow rate is suitable for the livestock, no leaks in the system, and any final 'junk' finds it way to the filtration process. Aquarist would do well to begin maintenance routine (water changes, etc.) during this time.

2. With live rock for nitrification, the aquarium must show good water quality.
No livestock (other than what comes with the live rock) should be put into the aquarium until ammonia and nitrite levels show zero. Adding frozen foods to the tank in small quantities starts the organic cycle. Not only will a large variety of microbes come and go in the next few months, but they will wax and wane in numbers. DO NOT CONTINUE TO 3. until ALL ammonia and nitrite readings are zero "0." (That is not NEAR ZERO, but ZERO).

3. Clean up crew introduction
Some of the hardy clean-up crew members are to be introduced and fed. Just snails (herbivores and carnivores) to start. More food is introduced into the aquarium now. Bacteria are getting a good foot hold. Brown algae and nuisance growth may be apparent. Aquarist keeps removing it and continues with good and diligent maintenance. Aquarist now tests for all important water chemistry parameters according to the livestock wanted. The aquarist practices making adjustments to alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, pH, salinity, and temperature.

4. Introduction of more sensitive invertebrates
Now can come shrimp, larger snails (e.g., conch), hardy brittle stars, and selected crabs. Feed them well. (No hermit crabs ever)! The tank shows signs of a thriving pod population. They seem to be everywhere.

5. Nuisance 'algae' and microbes seem to settle into a small population.
The tank is getting older. The microbes are not shifting in kinds and in numbers as often as they were before. Pollutants are finding their way out of the system or being processed by organisms in the system, at nearly the rate they are being introduced. Delicate brittle stars and additional hardy non-fish livestock may be added, if desired.

6. Hardy fish livestock is introduced, after its quarantine.
This is now a challenging time. The aquarist has waited a long time for this. This is the time the aquarist's patience will be truly tested. The introduction of fish should be as they come out of a 6-week quarantine. That means one fish every 6 weeks can be added to the aquarium. Hardy non-fish reef livestock can be slowly added at a faster rate.

7. Aquarium has maturity.
No (or very little) signs of nuisance microbes or algae. Water quality is stable and where it should be. For larger aquariums, larger clean up crew members may be added (e.g., starfish, cucumber, etc.). The frequency of testing the water for chemistry can be relaxed since now the aquarist knows what changes normally occur. The aquarium and aquarist are 'seasoned.' The aquarist needs to make decisions about any additional equipment needs. Is a calcium reactor going to be needed to keep up with those additions? Is a phosphate removal system needed? Are the water changes good enough?


8. More sensitive fishes
At this point in time, the mature aquarium is ready for more sensitive fishes like the large Angelfish, Butterflyfishes, more sensitive Tangs, etc.

What kind of time is needed?
1. Two to three weeks.
2. Variable from two weeks to two months.
3. Two months.
4. One month.
6. Four months.
7. Two months.
8. Ongoing.

NOTE: The progress stops at any time ammonia and/or nitrites are detected. After these return to 0 (zero) readings for two to three weeks, the progress may continue.

Before the first hardy fish is put into the aquarium, the aquarium should be no less than 3-4 months old -- or at least 3 months past the time the water quality showed no ammonia or nitrites. Hardy fishes and invertebrates may be introduced for the next four to six months and then after that, the more sensitive fishes.

The aquarist can hasten the second step (2.) by seeding with bacteria or choosing live rock that is aged and not decaying, and choosing to stock the aquarium with 'living substrate' but these don't always work, or may not work well. Frankly, I don't see the value in these kinds of products.

It takes time for an aquarium to mature. Maturity is basically when the tank no longer has shifts of bio-matter wastes, but they tend to remain level with the exporting of them (e.g., water changes, macro algae growth, etc.) and the action of microbes processing organics (not just the nitrification bacteria).

So much emphasis is placed on getting the tank to the point where there is no ammonia and nitrite detected by test kits, that it is forgotten that there are hundreds of other types of microbes that need time to also settle in to the routine of the aquarium. These microbes don't start their job until the tank is up and running, and can't settle in until the nutrients in the water come to a sort of equilibrium with the things removing or using them. This is Nature's way and Nature's time frame. If the aquarist wants great success and minimum frustration, time and patience is needed.
 

MarkD

Active Member
Well I went to lfs yesterday and picked up a couple snail (trocheous/nassarius) and two real small reef grazing crabs.

They seemed to think it better to get fish first, like the clowns since the snails, crabs, shrimp etc. are more delicate but I got some anyway to see how it goes.

He asked how my water was and if I was sure I cycled because the snails are more delicate. I'll probably bring them in a sample if things look OK and get a pair of clowns next week.

He also said the snail/crabs won't really produce much waste like a fish.

It's funny everything you read says get a cuc first but he said better to get a fish. Of coarse that was just the guy that was helping me, I didn't ask anyone else.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Well I went to lfs yesterday and picked up a couple snail (trocheous/nassarius) and two real small reef grazing crabs.

They seemed to think it better to get fish first, like the clowns since the snails, crabs, shrimp etc. are more delicate but I got some anyway to see how it goes.

He asked how my water was and if I was sure I cycled because the snails are more delicate. I'll probably bring them in a sample if things look OK and get a pair of clowns next week.

He also said the snail/crabs won't really produce much waste like a fish.

It's funny everything you read says get a cuc first but he said better to get a fish. Of coarse that was just the guy that was helping me, I didn't ask anyone else.

I can see where he's coming from. One of the things you will find is there are lots of different ways to do things in this hobby. Just because people have different opinions doesn't make either way wrong necessarily (although sometimes it does).

Your LFS guy isn't just saying goofy stuff, IMO. He's got a valid way of thinking. It isn't my view, but it's valid.

I think it's almost always a good idea to have your LFS double check your water.
 

MarkD

Active Member
Thanks Pat, I'll probably bring them a sample tomorrow and see how it looks.

I guess worst case is the snails and crabs will die right? I'll just have to keep an eye on them and get them out if they do.

Thanks
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Thanks Pat, I'll probably bring them a sample tomorrow and see how it looks.

I guess worst case is the snails and crabs will die right? I'll just have to keep an eye on them and get them out if they do.

Thanks

That's the worst case. My real opinion is I think you've cycled and they will be fine. But, it's your tank to do with as you see fit based on the various advice you get.
 

MarkD

Active Member
Yes, defiantly cycled. Ammonia rose and went to zero, then nitrite rose and went to zero. I did about a 35% water change and just did another 20% because nitrate was still a little high.

I'll probably do another 20% this weekend.
 

Desmond

Well-Known Member
Make sure not to change out too much water at a time. I would not worry as much about N03 .
This should go down in time and will also depend on how much you are feeding.
 

MarkD

Active Member
Haven't really fed at all yet. I only had what was left of a deli shrimp in there from cycling so I went to get the snails and crabs. I threw a little pellet in there yesterday and broke it in half. I kind of put one by the crabs and one by then nassarius and it came out of the sand and ate.
I probably won't put another one in until tomorrow (no algae yet to speak of but just stated keeping lights on). Onc r u get fish they may be able to get some leftover food.
It's a rsm 130d and I changed out 10gal after I cycled, then changed out 5gal a week later.

I figured I'd do another 5gal next week but I'll see how things look.

Thanks
 

MarkD

Active Member
I just had my water tested and all looks good but ph is always at 8.0, should I be adding some ph buffer to increase a little?
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
I just had my water tested and all looks good but ph is always at 8.0, should I be adding some ph buffer to increase a little?

Really, I wouldn't worry about it. I believe in minimal dosing as one is likely to do more harm than good.

Besides, 8 is fine. What number are you shooting for?
 

Desmond

Well-Known Member
Don't go messing with ph. It is perfect like this. Add fish very slowly and you can increase the food. I have 8 narcarius snails and 6 turbo and a small conch in my 130d. When you feed frozen fod the fish will never get it all. My advice is do weekly 5 gallon water change or 20 litres and try not mess with any parameters for the first few months and see what they look like then . Chasing numbers is not fun and allot of work and unnessary expenses buying buffer solutions ect. Stable parameters are much better in the long run even if they are not exactly perfect

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MarkD

Active Member
Yes , I thought then range was 8.0 to 8.3 so I guess I'm ok at the low end. All else looked good. Ammonia and nitrite 0 and nitrate down to 10. I only have 2 snails and 2 small reef grazing hermit crabs right now so not feeding much yet.

I probably need more snails but I wanted to start slow and see how it went since I don't have much algae to feed on. I may get a pair of clowns soon.

Thanks
 

Desmond

Well-Known Member
A pair of clowns will be fine with levels like that and a few more snails. The n03 will come down as tank matures. Narcarius snails are great cleaners of leftover food and turbo for algae.

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MarkD

Active Member
Thanks guys. Phosphate were 0 too.

I have one Nassarius (buries in sand) comes out to fees and one trouchus.

They did have nerite, Mexican turbo, astera and a bunch of others.

Don't u think I should hold off on more snails until I get fish so I'm actually feed g something? I only have my lights coming on for about 4/5 hrs recently since there's nothing really in there so more for me to watch at this point.
 

Desmond

Well-Known Member
I meant when you add a pair of clowns. Add a little extra frozen food for Narcarius they will make short work of it. Best cleaners in my tank for extra food.

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nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Might wait on adding more snails, until you decide to run a full light cycle 8-10 hours, once you do this you will have plenty of algae for them to eat. When you add fish & start feeding them, might add another dozen or whatever.
 
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