Nobby's S-650

[Nobbygas]

The ICP test is really good, and I'd recommend it, if only to find out just what is the quality of the your water.
I will do some water changes, but that is not a route I want to go down for the regular running of the tank.
I think Red Sea A, B C and D are pretty much the same as the Triton stuff, in that it just replaces trace elements. However, I have stopped dosing Triton.

It's back to basics.

 

[mr_tap_water]

I test for potassium every now and again and also doing small regular water charges and the potassium levels hardly ever move I wouldn't worry too much about it it's only meant to help with colouration on SPSs so I understand.

If some of your stats are too high just back off them for awhile and keep testing they will soon come down on their own to where you want them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nobbygas]

I test for potassium every now and again and also doing small regular water charges and the potassium levels hardly ever move I wouldn't worry too much about it it's only meant to help with colouration on SPSs so I understand.

If some of your stats are too high just back off them for awhile and keep testing they will soon come down on their own to where you want them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. The really strange thing though is that there is nothing that is screaming out from the ICP test !

 

[Nobbygas]

I'll complete a 90 litre water change tonight, and then another 90l on Sunday.
I'll also get a couple more frags on Saturday. I'm aiming for the 'nuclear corals'. These are the GSP, Kenya Tree type of coral that can normally withstand anything ! Yes, I know that they can be invasive, but I've got to get something growing in the tank !

 

[Pat24601]

I'll complete a 90 litre water change tonight, and then another 90l on Sunday.
I'll also get a couple more frags on Saturday. I'm aiming for the 'nuclear corals'. These are the GSP, Kenya Tree type of coral that can normally withstand anything ! Yes, I know that they can be invasive, but I've got to get something growing in the tank !

I think that's about what I'd do if I were you.

I really did have a very easy time with branching hammer corals (not wall hammer), torch, and frogspawn if that helps. In that order. I treated those things awful and they still thrived and looked good. Very flowy.

 

[Nobbygas]

I've now completed three water changes of 90L per go.
All tested params look good:
Nitrate 1.5 (Red Sea test)
Phos 0.02 (Red Sea test)
Calc 415 (Salifert)
Mag 1275 (Salifert)
Alk 8.6 (Salifert)
Salinity 1.025(Refractometer)

All Triton stuff has been removed, so only NOPOX going into the tank at the moment and that is down to the 1ml per 100L level. All the slime has disappeared, except for on the filter socks. They need changing every day at the moment as they get clogged up.
I've stopped feeding with Red Sea Energy A+B, as in truth, there just isn't enough stock in the tank to warrant it. It's easier to just spot feed !
Red Sea Foundation ABC is on order.
Red Sea Colours ABC&D are on order.
I'm measuring the Calc on a daily basis to understand the usage before dosing the Foundation. I'll do that for a week, and then I should know what the Calc usage is.

I didn't get any frags on Saturday. I thought I'd just use my remaining ones for now, which are a Green Staghorn, a Red Staghorn (?) and a RTBA.

All fish and invertebrates look healthy. I did lose two Blue Chromis though. The first due to a large chunk that something had taken out of her on her back. She 'disappeared'. The second one somehow escaped into the rear chamber when I took the weir combs out for a clean. I didn't realise until I found her dead in one of the filter socks !

 

[SPR]

All the parameters look good so maybe go get some more live stock? That's the fun but lol! Go fill it up!

I wouldn't bother with SPS yet but it's up to you.

I was looking at my tank yesterday and although I've just added some more SPS, I think I much prefer the movement of the other types of coral. Seems more hypnotic lol!

On the dosing, what I did was measure on day 1, then leave for 4-5 days and then test again to work out the daily usage. I then added enough of whichever foundation to bring it back up to the correct level, and then started dosing according to the daily uptake. I then just make fine adjustments depending on test results each week, but now hardly anything.

It's still strange you get slime in the filter socks. Can't see why that's happening at all and your also on a low NoPox dose

 

[Nobbygas]

I don't know why the socks slime up either. I've got good water movement in the Sump, with an Eheim Compact 300 positioned so that it just directs the output upwards, so no slime anywhere, except the socks !

I will not buy any SPS. I'll leave that for the future. I personally prefer the movement of the sotfties/LPS stuff.

 

[Nobbygas]

It's going from bad to worse !

Last Tuesday, I lost one of the Blue Chromis. I never did find it. I just put it down to 'one of those things', especially with a Blue Chromis, as the one that went missing looked as though it had been beaten up at some point.
However, on Thursday morning I found my male Anthia dead. On taking out the body I couldn't see any obvious signs. It looked normal. It hadn't been dead long when I found it as it was still fully coloured, and nothing had tried munching on it. Previously it hadn't shown any signs of being ill.
Saturday afternoon/evening the alarm bells went off when I noticed the Kole Tang was very pale. By Saturday night I could see white blobs around the mouth, he wasn't eating and was just hiding in a cave.
Sunday was frustrating as I couldn't get to the shops to get any medication as the shops are all closed in Germany on a Sunday. The Kole was going downhill rapidly.
This morning the Kole was dead, and the Arabian Blue Faced Wrasse is not looking good. After finding the Kole dead at 6am, I wanted to do a water change again, but I had to go to work.

I've tried to diagnose what the disease is. It is not White Spot, but appears to be more like a Fungal Infection which appears to affect the mouth, and I presume, the Gills. Now I know the first shout will be to set-up a Q Tank. I could do this with a large plastic container I have (100l). I also have an Eheim Professional external filter I could use for the Q Tank., but the problem would be catching the fish! Some, like the Clowns, are pretty easy to catch, but the majority would be very very difficult as they tend to head into the rocks at the first sign of activity in the tank. I think I'd need to strip down the rocks to catch all the fish. As I think it is a Fungal Infection I will look for a treatment that I can use in the tank. I think I'll also buy a much bigger net just in case I do decide to take out as many fish as I can.

Where has the infection come from?
There have been no additions at all to the tank. I have only made slight adjustments to the water, for example bring the Salinity down from 1.025 to 1.024, and the temperature down from 26 to 25 degrees, as recommended by the Red Sea guidelines, in preparation for using the Red Sea Foundation Elements. These changes were gradual, and took place over the course of a week. I also completed a 10% water change on the weekend, using Red Sea Coral Pro salt.
I am thinking of the first Chromis that 'disappeared'. Something had taken a huge bite/chunk out of it's back. Maybe this got infected, and the fish died, and started this off?

I will be ale to leave work a bit early today, so tonight I'll do another water change, but first I'll go to the LFS and see what medication/advice I can pick up.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Very sorry to here...

Did you know... we have one of the worlds premiere authorities on sw fish diseases here on RS Lee Birch that has made 100's of great post and stickies for us.

Check out this RS sub-forum...

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?forums/fish-diseases-treatments.155/

Lee's Bio (a.k.a. leebca)

 

[Nobbygas]

Thanks for that. I am facing a wipeout. Lost the Arabian Wrasse and another Anthia today. Several other fish look infected. The problem is identifying exactly what the infection is! I have started to prepare a hospital tank, but these fish are dropping quickly. So, after going around three fish shops and getting no advice I plumped for something made by JBL called 'Gyrodol'. It is basically Praziquantel. I have dosed it straight into the dt. To catch all the fish will, in my opinion, probably cause them more stress and in their weakened state may be too much. I don't have many corals, but reading loads of stuff online this doesn't appear to be a problem. My main concern is for the fish. The few corals will hopefully tough it out. I will remove some of the easier to catch fish and attempt to resolve their problem in a hospital tank. That way I will at least give myself two options and then I can see if either works.

 

[SPR]

Thanks for that. I am facing a wipeout. Lost the Arabian Wrasse and another Anthia today. Several other fish look infected. The problem is identifying exactly what the infection is! I have started to prepare a hospital tank, but these fish are dropping quickly. So, after going around three fish shops and getting no advice I plumped for something made by JBL called 'Gyrodol'. It is basically Praziquantel. I have dosed it straight into the dt. To catch all the fish will, in my opinion, probably cause them more stress and in their weakened state may be too much. I don't have many corals, but reading loads of stuff online this doesn't appear to be a problem. My main concern is for the fish. The few corals will hopefully tough it out. I will remove some of the easier to catch fish and attempt to resolve their problem in a hospital tank. That way I will at least give myself two options and then I can see if either works.

Sorry to hear this Nobby

Don't know if it will help but JBL have online hospital to maybe ID what the disease is.

https://www.jbl.de/en/online-hospital/pict_diag_groups

You will probably get more help online than most LFS's

 

[Nobbygas]

Sorry to hear this Nobby

Don't know if it will help but JBL have online hospital to maybe ID what the disease is.

https://www.jbl.de/en/online-hospital/pict_diag_groups

You will probably get more help online than most LFS's

Thanks for that. After much reading, I have come to the conclusion that the culprit is Flukes. If I am correct then I have done the right thing using Parizquaten.......If not....
The LFS were a complete waste of time.

 

[Nobbygas]

Yesterday, I removed the Activated Carbon, switched off the Skimmer, and applied the medication. The medication was enough for 500l, which is a slight underdose, but I'd rather under, than overdose!
I had a look at the tank this morning and I couldn't see any bodies. However, the lights were not on, and most of the fish were still sleeping, but no dead bodies stuck to the circulation pump intakes was a good sign !
I did have one casualty. I managed to catch three of the most badly affected fish (2 x Blue Chromis, 1 x Female Anthia) and put them in my emergency 40l hospital tank, but overnight the Anthia jumped. Can't do much about that.

This whole episode has made me think a bit about our tanks, and the advice you read/receive. First off, nearly everyone says, "put your fish in a hospital/quarantine tank", but how practical is this in reality? If you have a Nano, then this is possible, but when it's something like the S-650, with 20+ to 30+ fish, and the scape has been designed by yourself to include caves, hiding places, sleeping places, overhangs and don't forget the corals, then you can forget it. I did purchase a fish trap, but after catching one fish in five hours, I've decided that this isn't really an option. The reality is that if you want to catch all your fish, you have to strip down your tank, rock, corals and all. What would be ideal is if one of the fish/chemical companies produce a drug that sends the fish to sleep (almost like an anesthetic), but doesn't kill them, so you can then just pick them out of the tank easily !
The problem is that most of the medication to treat the various infections, is not good for the reef tank. This is the first time I've had to deal with a problem like this, but I have to ask everyone, are you prepared for something similar? Please, I don't wish this on anyone else, but just think about what you would do with all the fish in your tank. How big a hospital tank would you need? I think we all have spare heaters and circulation pumps hanging around, so that's no problem.
I'd also recommend that the link produced by Nanoreefing4fun four posts before this one should be bookmarked. It is an excellent link.
Bad things happen so fast it's frightening. I can't believe how quickly things went from hhhmmmm to aagghh !

So it's wait and see. In the meantime I'm preparing as much water as I can for a 30% water change in the next couple of days. Once again, this causes problems as I had to use one of my water containers as the hospital tank, so my water storage capacity is reduced just when I need it to be at it's maximum !

 

[SPR]

Ive just been reading up on this and there is a product called Fluke Solve. Maybe worth a look if you haven't already.

Being based in the UK i called them for you and the lady I spoke to was very helpful and basically said the product is marine and reef safe. The reef safe is on the basis they haven't had any reports back of issues in reef systems as of yet but it may well be worth you giving them a call for a chat. They also deliver to the EU so you should be able to get some.

http://www.vetark.co.uk/pages/Fluke-Solve.aspx

On trying to catch the fish, I would say you have no chance using a net in a Max S 650. Certainly in my tank there are too many rocks, corals and hiding places and they all dive for cover when they get alarmed.

Now this might initially sound a stupid idea, but have you thought of using a small barbless fishing hook and line to catch them ? I used to be a keen angler! I mentioned this once as a joke at my LFS, and he said they sometimes have to use that method.

Anyway I hope you can get it all sorted and maybe the above could help you out, but please just research it yourself to make sure its all ok, but just trying to help you out if I can. And learning another part of fish keeping as I go!.

 

[Nobbygas]

Shaun - Yep, I read about Fluke Solve. It's main ingredient is Praziquantel, which is the same as the JBL Gyrodol. The interesting thing about the Fluke Solve is the way they recommend you treat your tank once a year......just because. Interesting idea.
Praziquantel appears to be reef safe, by all accounts.Hopefully when I get home from work I should see some improvement, as the medication works mainly in the first 24 hours. All of the Flukes should have died. I have to re-dose again in a few days as the eggs are not killed off, so when they hatch I have to blitz them !

This fishing lark. I don't think I fancy wearing the red hat.....

 

[Nobbygas]

But this all depends if it is indeed Flukes! I'll find out when I get home.

One other point of interest. As I said in an earlier post, my UV blew-up and I never replaced it. If it were running would it have stopped the outbreak? The only answer I can find is to replace it anyway !

 

[SPR]

But this all depends if it is indeed Flukes! I'll find out when I get home.

One other point of interest. As I said in an earlier post, my UV blew-up and I never replaced it. If it were running would it have stopped the outbreak? The only answer I can find is to replace it anyway !

It could well have stopped it spreading as it kills things floating around in the water and if it is flukes they have a life cycle.

I would get the UV-C up and running again sharpish!

 

[Nobbygas]

It could well have stopped it spreading as it kills things floating around in the water and if it is flukes they have a life cycle.

I would get the UV-C up and running again sharpish!

But I refuse to buy any of that cheap Chinese rubbish again, and the one you have (JBL?) is like a Rocket Launcher!

 

[SPR]

But I refuse to buy any of that cheap Chinese rubbish again, and the one you have (JBL?) is like a Rocket Launcher!

Yes but it's very powerful and impressive to my friends!!

Oh and it hasn't blown up, yet!