New kole has ich I think

zack879

Member
Hey so day two with kole tang and he's got some ich spots. He's otherwise healthy and eating frozen food and picking at my rocks and acan. No other fish has it and I've been supplement with garlic. Can he fight it off or how should I deal with this. Qt isn't up and running but could be on Saturday. I think that stress would make it worse. I have inverts so no copper or formalin. Keep in mind he's otherwise healthy and whipping around the tank. He was also in qt at the lfs when I got him. Watched him for two weeks there.
 
A healthy fish can fight of Ich no problem. My Hippo Tang gets ICH everytime I put in a new fish, he always fights it off without my intervention. And none of my other 6 Tangs gets it.
 

zack879

Member
Well this guy is def healthy. Although he doesn't like my nori sheets. Should I leave it in overnight? I garliced it up. He'll it my frozen mixes and can compete w the clowns and wrasse no problem not to mention picking my rocks. Any other sheet of weed to try?
 

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
Problem about Ich is not that a small amount can kill a fish, even in the ocean Ich is non mortal as fish can eventually drop it at any point and keep on swimming avoiding further contamination.
Though in the aquarium, the parasite will keep reproducing under uncontrollable numbers as it's close quarters, at some point you will probably see your fish breath heavily meaning that the fish has lots of parasite in it's gills, death is not too far from this stage.

Even that the Kole manages to fight Ich off, any new fish that you get into the tank will serve as a fresh host for the parasite and this will keep evolving at a pace that not even the Kole will manage to resist.

There is no safe cure for using under reef or fowlr systems, you got to remove the fish (and any other that are in with him) and treat him (Them) with Hypo-salinity or Copper treatment.

Also, tank must remain fish-less for 8 weeks minimum.
 

zack879

Member
Well every fish carries ich as it is an internal parasite so I guess the fact my tank has it is a fairly obvious statement. Correct?
 

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
No, not every fish has Ich, they get contaminated usually at some point where the fish is being transfer from provider to provider and we tend to introduce it in the aquarium.
Ich cysts can be introduced very easily in the aquarium, a live rock, corals, invertebrates etc.

And yes, your tank as of now has crypto cyst around as the only stage in which you can see Ich is in the white spots which basically are holes left on the fish when the parasite comes out, falls on the sand getting ready for round 2 (3, 4 ... until all fish are dead).

This is why a fallow tank is required so the parasite doesn't have any host.
 

zack879

Member
Don't mean to be argumentative but what you just said is essentially contradictory. Seeing as how the majority of the fish are wild caught and probably at some point had ich. Therefore they carry it. So there is no point in qt from an ich standpoint because as long as a tank has a fish it has ich so the qt will be infected as well. I've heard multiple places that all tanks have it because all fish carry it. Only the stressed fish succumb to it.
 

dmatt88

Has been struck by the ban stick
Gotta b honest here. Ich exists in every healthy tank. Give er hell boys.

.............I'm feeling salty.
 

steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
If the tank is left fallow for 12 weeks the tank no longer has ich. Ich can't survive without a host for that long. If the fish have been treated with copper or hypo salinity the ich is dead and the fish are then ich free. Re introduce them to the tank and the tank and fish are ich free.

Given this...how are either of the 2 posts above true? Am I missing something?
 

dmatt88

Has been struck by the ban stick
12 weeks. Cmon it was 8. However my tanks exhibit ich lightly always. N has for a yr. Devon.

.............I'm feeling salty.
 

steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
??? I wasn't referring to any particular tank, it's a hypothetical to illustrate the point that it's seems to me, under those circumstances, a tank could be ich free.
 
I gotta agree with Matt on this one. I had not introduced any fish for a year, then introduced a Naso that was in a Copper Treated QT for a month. I put em in, and BOOM!!! ICH, out of the blue. Didn't come in on the Naso, not after being in Copper. So, where did it come from? I say its in the tank longer than anyone can say, it may drop off the fish, and pick back up lightly, enough so its not seen, then drop back off again. But, its still there, and a healthy fish can fight it off, my Hippo Tang done it quite a few times now. Eats like mad, swims normal, and no heavy crazy breathing. It can be beat with no help from us, more easily than most would admit. Its when we intervene and piss off the fish even more, thats when the trouble starts.
 

steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
The problem when you say all tanks have Ich is that you can talk about thousands of tanks that have it but all you need is 1 that doesn't and you're wrong.

When you give it out as adivise, it sounds like you're saying "all tanks have it, so it's useless to try and rid your tank of it". There are several examples where people have rid their tank of it by doing it the proper way.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just be careful when you give it out as advice.

The best advice I can give is read these threads, Lee is the expert here:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/57175-fish-white-spots-went-away.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...nts/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/52236-curing-fish-marine-ich.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ents/23130-copper-treatment-use-problems.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html
Check out 8, 9, and 10 under myths.

And if you're wondering who Lee is:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/45723-lees-bio-k-leebca.html
 
Don't care what Lee has to say. He can't think outside the box. He's like a bean counter, he's to much of a by the numbers guy. And it doesn't work that way.
If Lee was correct in this theory, then how in my tank, did I get ICH to show up, after not adding 1 fish to the tank for a YEAR. Then added a Naso Tang from COPPER TREATMENT?
 

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
Even you are saying you didn't add a fish over a year you still had fish in there which became immune, though, they served as a host, fresh meat comes along (your Naso) and cryptocaryon attacks. Copper proly klled Ich (that's if you properly QT'ed for six weeks minimum as required and dosed as instructed), but your tank still had the parasite around.

I consider Lee's advice good, maybe he is a bean counter, as you insultively stated, though, every expert on the subject will tell you the same, don't believe Steve, Lee or me, google it any where and gather your conclusions.
 

pdawg

Member
Everyone has their own opinion, in this case, one opinion is right. Which one is uknown, I personally think you can rid your tank of ich. Some fish can fight it off alot better than others can. I've had a tank die on me from ich, but my mandarin, blenny's, and gobies were fine, the tangs and butterflies died. As long as there is a fish in the tank, the ich will remain, but it wont kill unless the fish is more susceptible. This is my opinion, and overall, ive personally gave up on trying to rid ich of my tank because it is really hard to get rid of it, and I cant seem to keep fish alive in quarantine very well, and all you need is 1 parasite to infect the whole tank, I have a 130 gallon, and im running a 36 watt Turbo Twist UV sterilizer. This has been a lifesaver for me. My fish eat the best, and get the best vitamins, but yet ich still won the battles, killing many fish, so from now on im always running a UV sterilizer because I haven't run into one problem after getting it, and my fish are happy and doing better than ever. Just my opinion on this subject, not saying anyones wrong
 

zack879

Member
Ok well I seem to have started a good debate. Which I am glad because it's informative to me. However this kole tang that I have dos have ich. He is swimming well and eating off the rocks and some of my reef one frozen soaked in garlic. My other three fish are great. Should I intervene or let it go and see how he does. Mine inclination was he can fight it. He was qted after coming to the lfs and never go ich. Or perhaps he did and they didn't notice but he didn't have it when I got him so my thinking is he's healthy and can fight it. As long as he is eatin I think he'll be better off staying out of my 10 gal qt. ESP because the majority of his food comes of of my LR and green algae ridden glass. Thoughts? I will do a water change and get it ready just in case.
 

zack879

Member
It should also be stated that in the life cycle of a parasite it needs a succeptible host to complete the cycle. If all Of the fish remain stress free and healthy the cycle cannot be complete correct? My undergrad invert zoology professor would almost certainly agree. So in theory agouldnt fallowing a tank be unnecessary? I'm not going to do this either way but just curious.
 

pdawg

Member
well, you dont always see the parasite when its on a host, you can only see the parasite when its "pregnant". I personally had a kole tang, one of my favorite fish, and it died from ich. I waited too long to qt it and didnt have a sterilizer. Since i have gotten my sterilizer, i havent lost one fish to ich, and I own a scribbled rabbitfish, purple tang, blue hippo tang, powderbrown tang, and a moorish idol which I've had for over a year now. The decision is your call, but if it were me, the only way i wouldnt do something about it is if you have any fish susceptible to the parasite. The fish that can usually live through ich breakouts are hawkfish, blennies, gobies, dragonets, sometimes damsels, clownfish, basslets, cardinals,etc. Many people recommend removing all of the fish and treating copper on them, which ich cannot live through a copper or hypo treatment thus killing any ich on the fish. And then you basically starve the ich remaining in the fish tank to death by removing their food source. Its your call, a UV sterilizer is a pricy investment, I paid close to 250.00 for mine, but I've realized after so many fish dying on me from ich that not only was I losing money, but losing things that i was getting attached to also. Your call, but in my perspective im a firm believer behind the UV sterilizer because out of the 3 methods(UV sterilizer, fallowing the tank, leaving it alone) which I have tried all 3, the only one that has worked for me is the UV sterilizer, and it worked with flying colors. some dont like it because it kills any micro organism that flows through it like pods and phytoplankton, but personally i have 2 dragonets, a mandarin and scooter, had them for over a year and they are doing great, and i have never added pods to my tank, and i have corals that do just fine. Your call.
 
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