Prow
I don't think you are understanding what you are reading and I'm saying.
just raise the Ca+, no more ph limiting. thus its the Ca+ that is limiting.
I'll say it again low pH is limiting to coral growth, it is not up for debate it is a KNOW fact. Are trying to tell me if the pH 6,6 and the Ca++ is 450 and the Alk is normal the corals will not be limited. They will start to melt before you eyes. Higher pH increases calcification ....period, thus lower pH is limiting. Low calcium is also limiting as is low dKH and temp. Will here corals grow faster if the pH remains at 7.7 and the Ca++ is raised, yes. If the Ca++ remains the same and she raises just the pH, will the rate of growth increase, yes. At her posted values the corals are being limited by both. Corals DO NOT stop growing at her posted parameters....period. Her posted parameters are not that low yet.
many calcareous algae's love elevated CO2 its only being limited by the Ca+ level.
Calcareous Algae's don't use CO2 for their C source but HCO3- and covert it into CO2. Lower forms of algae like Cyano, dino's , air, etc. , use CO2. In a reef tank with normal levels there is hardly any CO2 , < 0.50 ppm
"reefing chemistry" can not explain what i am talking about, not yet
I don't think you know what you are talking about with that statement that says nothing.
Artificial sea water with zero or low calcium concentrations
And the word is zero or low, it says nothing about 330 being limiting
As a consequence of the effects of
low-calcium sea water, we have chosen, in the present
investigation, to examine the relationship between calcification
and photosynthesis by using high-calcium sea water..
Low levels are not defined as what the LIMIT is and as I have repeatedly said low calcium will also limit coral growth. You are reading into something that is NOT there.
dont take this wrong but you keep coming back to the effects of adding Ca+ to a tank already at good levels and the effects on calcification. what about the effects of the lowered Ca+ on her corals, it is causing harm, the ph and alk levels are not.
Where did I say that ? You are making things up as you go along. You keep going off on tangents that are not related to her issue.
you believe the ph is doing more harm and should be fixed before addressing the Ca+.
Yes I do but both are to low. The pH should be addressed before the Ca++ and not the other way around as corals are not THE only animals in the tank. And the fact of the matter is both should be addressed at the same time, through WC not just dumping in Ca++ or more buffers. She has a ionic imbalance issue. And dumping in more buffers or Ca++ does not fix the balance.
no reactions with X amount of this present or X amount of that will show what i am talking about, from the quote above; "This inevitably must affect the transport of Ca2+ across the epithelia and compromise any experiments in which Ca2+ transport is a factor." its not possible to get past that and understand whats going on using just chemistry.
Prow , Sorry but you do not undersatand what you are reading. Coral calcification is controlled by Ca++, pH, Alk, temp and ligh in many corals but not all and if you want a health animal. You need some ref to read on the biochemistry of corals here is a start. Try not to reading into things most is on photosynthesis.
Photosynthesis and the Reef Aquarium,
Part I: Carbon Sources
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/28978-low-ph-calc-high-alk.html
correct, i do know of some softies that can, but this is far from the norm and her clams, sps zoas and sps are hurting with that Ca+ level.
I never said as such I said again she is limited in Ca++ and that does not = "hurting" things. Here high Alk is helping both the low pH an Ca++ somewhat. Both here pH and Ca++ are to low. Adding just CaCl2 is not going to fix things because of the buffer that was used. She has added Ca++ and what did it do , it just dropped back down. It kinda' has set new rules that don't allow the normal dosing of sups. It is the same issue when one has low Alk or Ca++ or both the Ca++ and Alk are low and not being able to get them and keeping then up but keep trying to fix things by switched from one buffer sup to another kind and one a Ca++ sup to another kind. It is Solution Kinetics. The system gets out of Ionic Balance. This is a common issue in this hobby. Randy and I gave talked about it allot on the RC Chem forum. This issue, similar to Lynn's, was brought up the other day and Chris posted Change the water.
and pushing it to levels of 500+, everyone would be able to just add Ca+ and increase calcification along with it. i dont think its the Ca+ that is increasing calcification but the effects of other mechanisms on calcification. perhaps to initiate those mechanisms that result in a increased calcification rate, higher Ca+ levels are needed. i dout its the Ca+ also
Then you did not understand that pdf I posted, as all they did is raise the Ca++. Other mechanisms yes, there has to be proper temp, pH and Alk They all play a roll in calcification. You can not expect to have a pH of 7. 7 and Alk of 1 meq / l , low light, poor current, low temp and raise the Ca++ to 500ppm and automatically think they will have marked increase in growth rate.
ok lets get off this, i believe alk will get used up while she make adjustments to bring things back to normal, you think Alk will stay the same. ok so be it.
PROW you are beginning to PISS me off with your nonsense and Putting words in my mouth !!
Where did I say that ! I said to do 50 % WC. It was me that brought this up first NOT you or anyone else in post #16.
and to add to
, i stick with the advice i gave. back to back 50% water changes, BAM two days done, water parameters close to norm.
Don't be taking credit from my first advice and what I have been saying from the beginning. I know that Lynn knows that here WC water needs to have a higher Ca++ and pH. I don't need to tell her that. Once the WC are done if the parameters are low they can be bumped up.
When WC are done the Alk will NOT be used up but diluted to a lower level, so the Alk will be less. "IF" the Alk does not drop, because her salt mix is high in Alk, it will then get used up in time from neutralizing acids, Abiotic and biotic precip and won't be an issue. And her posted Alk is really not an issue it is the low Ca++ and pH or did you forget about that ?