Low ph and calc with high alk

lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Ok I have read chemistry articles until I think I have confused myself. Either that or I have an unusual issue.
It started a couple of weeks ago when we noticed the ph was low. Stupidly we added ph buffer in an attempt to raise it without testing the calc and alk. I know better. I have no excuse. Anyway this of course resulted in high alk. This was about a month ago and I still have low ph with high alk. All of the articles I read seem to address low ph and low alk. Added to the mix is low calcium. We have tried supplementing calc and we have tried water changes to reduce the Alk. I am still sitting at the same place.
ph.7.7 (daytime, I've been afraid to look in the morning.)
calc 325
alk 11.9 dkh or 4.25 meq/l
mg 1300
The rest of the levels are 0.
I have tried increasing aeration to address the ph with no change. I have no top on the tank and have an open sump and fuge so I really don't think that is it.

Anybody have any ideas?
 
prow

prow

Well-Known Member
no, kalk is for maintaining alk. it just so happens it also adds Ca+ and because the type of reaction, runs a high ph.

what did you use to dose Ca+? try to use pure CaCl-, like Kent Turbo Calcium. your going need to need to dose over a few days. it will seem like a lot. your replacing and raising daily.

O on the ph, dont forget its winter time, less sun, heater uses, windows closed ect. might want to recalibrate you ph monitors just to see if its accurate. if no monitors go get one:D i do agree dripping kalk may help but you need to get things balanced before starting a kalk drip.
 
B

BobBursek

Active Member
Dripping Kalk usually will not raise Ca, just maintain it where it is at. Kent's Turbo Calcium is great for raising it. I too am strugling with low PH, I got it uo a bit with an air stone in the tank. If your disoved CO2 is high in the water it will bring down your PH which in the winter time in cloder climates is usually the issue.
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
sasquatch said:
how are you testing ph? have you done the stir test?
Click to expand...

What is the stir test?
I have tried the aeration test and adding the airstone didn't make any difference.
I am testing the ph using a monitor that we re-calebrated when we first noticed the ph low. I am backing it up with 2 different liquid tests.
Fortunately or unfortunately I am in FL so the air is on as usual. No changes for the winter.
We have been adding calcium but will continue to add daily.
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Yes tried inside air and outside air. Also tank is under an AC vent as well as several fans. I really don't think that is it.
I'll have to ask Frank what kind of calc. I am out of town. I believe he used the Kent Calcium but I don't think it is Turbo Calcium. I'll talk to him in the morning and if it isn't Turbo I will have him go to the LFS.
So basically what I am hearing is increase calc and be sure the oxygen is sufficient. Is that correct? That is what I thought Randy's articles were saying but I got confused.
What about the Alk? Is there any way to reduce it? It has been this way for several weeks and the only thing we have done to attempt a fix is to add calcium and do water changes.
I guess we will keep at it. I'll make sure we are using Turbo since several people suggested that one in particular.
 
bluespotjawfish

bluespotjawfish

Well-Known Member
What mag kit are you testing with? Do you trust it?
What calc kit are you testing with? Do you trust it?
What alk kit are you testing with? Do you trust it?

I would suspect an error in your test kits someplace. What does your fresh WC water test out at?
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Double calc. Salifert and I believe API but something else anyway.
ALK is Salifert and another I don't remember
Mag I only have one test so I have not double checked but the mag seems pretty reasonable though I would like it a bit higher. I am afraid to mess with it while I have these other problems
Haven't tested the NSW. Good idea. We did switch to Oceanic when we first noticed the high alk but we have only done 2 or 3 water changes with it. Another scheduled for this week so I will test before changing.
 
prow

prow

Well-Known Member
kent makes a few different Ca+ sups, the dry stuff is what your wanting. on the alk, no worries once you add CaCl it will get used up and drop. also with your alk on the high side it off sets (compensates) for the lower ph, so dont worry about the ph too much focus on balancing your Ca+/alk. ph usually self corrects once things are balanced out. unless of course you see things going bad then fix ph asap, but if corals or fish show no signs stay focussed on the balancing.

o yeah, its your salt, i do believe. Oceanic is well known to be low in Ca and high in alk. i think, might be the other way around, lol. anyway most def check and perhaps switch to salt better suited salt for your needs.
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Hmm I switched to Oceanic because I was told it was low in alk. Guess I should have checked myself.
Thanks
 
Boomer

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
What pH Buffer did you add ? Was the Calcium normal before you added this buffer or did this buffer drop the Calcium due to its addition ?

No matter how you want to look at it the low pH is from CO2. And with a pH that low and a Alk that high you have crap loads of CO2, on the order of 3.25 ppm and NSW is 0.50 ppm. A high Alk does not mean high pH. CO2 will drop the pH no matter what the Alk is.

We use Kalk to raise the pH and it will have little impact on raisng the Ca++ and Alk. Kalk eats up CO2 and thus raises the pH

Ca(OH)2 + CO2 ---> 2 HCO3- + Ca++

You did not aerate the sample right. You need to put it in a small pail, with no lid and "boil the water" with an airstone for a few hrs and then check it.

This buffer may have off-set the ionic balance so you may need to do 2 - 50 % changes a day apart.
 
JWarren

JWarren

Active Member
I agree with Boomer there.

Not only dose kalk increse the pH but supplies alk and ca at equal amounts. No need for buffer with Kalk.

If it were me I would dose nothing but Calcium chloride and do water changes until it came down. The CaCl will help to supress the alk.

I agree with the Co2 as well, it takes quite a while to drive it out of saltwater.
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Not being home I can't check the brand of PH buffer we added but it may be Seechem since the lfs tends to carry it.
Unfortunately we did not run full tests right when it started but I have the numbers from shortly after somewhere at home. I want to say it was 350 but I could be wrong.
I swear I did the aeration test right since I have read that process a million times, but I will have Frank do it again tomorrow. It's certainly not going to hurt, and if the great Boomer advises it, I have to do it.
The one other change I just thought of was that we just removed the chiller from the system. It has been off for a while but we disconnected it around the time this started. I am not sure if the chiller was before or after ph difficulties. The chiller was not in the stand.
Sorry, throwing out anything I can think of that has changed. I think you can get monitors to check for CO2 in the house. I can try to get one of those. Since the AC and my skimmer have been running before and after and the tank, sump, and fuge are all covered with eggcrate and several fans are on various areas of the tank so I don't know where it could be coming from..
Thanks for everybody's help.
If nothing else this will make me follow advice I give all the time and not dose anything without testing and understanding all of the implications of using a product.
 
JWarren

JWarren

Active Member
You got glass tops on or is it all open.

It's been kinda cold here the past couple of days great weather to open up all the windows!
 
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