Crowther's E-260

[Crowther]

Still waiting for the aquarium, sump kit, and Paletta's how-to book as the plot thickens:

Opted for 55 lbs. of BRS Reef Saver Aquarium Dry Live Rock for my scape. Added 40 lbs. of CaribSea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand to the order today for the substrate. Once the rock arrives I'll lay it out on a cardboard cut-out to build the scape using some combination of drill, sawzall, ties, and adhesive.

Decided that running to my LFS for water all the time was crazy (especially considering the high evaporation rates I anticipate here in Colorado) and ordered a Koolermax AR-122 6-stage RO+DI. Plan on coupling it with a float valve and setting it to fill a new Rubbermaid Brute trash can with dolly. Once that tops up, I'll add Instant Ocean Reef Crystal and mix it with a cheapo Jebao WP-1200 Submersible Fountain Pond Water Pump.

Thinking that I will use RV hose to avoid potential chemical contamination issues. Intend to cut it into two pieces: a short piece with the male end being affixed to the Jebao and a longer piece with the female end to be added onto the shorter piece after mixing for purposes of pumping the new salt water into the tank.

After everything is in the tank (rock first, then sand, then water), I intend to cycle the system without filters for a bit, turn it off, drop in a deli shrimp and let it sit without light until bacteria develops. Bought an API Saltwater Master Test Kit for purposes of monitoring that situation.

Once I get the book, I guess I'll figure out next steps. Any glaring errors so far?

 

[SPR]

Hi Crowther

I'd get some ATM Colony and your good to go straight away. Fish straight in.

I know the shrimp thing is the traditional way (before I get abused lol!) but it's 2017 and it works. My LFS originally recommended it and I've used in my 260 and then 650 without any problems.

I would also start reading all you can. I new absolutely nothing. And I mean nothing. I have followed the Red Sea Reef Program from the start using all of their products and it's been a steep learning curve but I've always been able to refer back to them for the different parts of the program.

Make sure you use a good quality salt mix (I use Red Sea Coral Pro) as it will mean you shouldn't have to start dosing buffers (Ca Mg Alk etc) for a long time as these salts contain balanced levels and until you get stocked with corals etc this should be enough to keep everything balanced.

I would also look at NoPox from Red Sea to control nitrates and phosphate levels from the start once you have fish in. There are other options, involving reactors, bags, wizardry.. but this is relatively easy as you just add it every day and it should prevent some of the algea issues you may/will get without it.

For the 3-4 months I had the 260, I was learning so knew none of the above and had algea issues, cyno and all sorts but in that time I read everything I could, and watched the Red Sea Reef Program Videos which gave me the base knowledge to build on, and of course support from the guys on here when needed.

Oh and the protein skimmer - when you start it up they can take a few days/weeks to dial in so just make fine adjustments and be patient until you 'become one' with it! They sometimes go crazy overskimming and on the 260 you will have a small white air valve which you can insert into the rubber air hose on the skimmer at the top/side (all will become clear when it arrives) so you may need to insert it and close it down a bit when you first start using the skimmer. Over the subsequent days/weeks you will be able to open this up and then remove it as the skimmer runs in. It takes me 1-2 months to get them fine tuned to how I want them but maybe I'm a bit slow!

Hope this helps.

 

[DaveK]

...

I'd get some ATM Colony and your good to go straight away. Fish straight in.

I know the shrimp thing is the traditional way (before I get abused lol!) but it's 2017 and it works. My LFS originally recommended it and I've used in my 260 and then 650 without any problems. ...

I don't recommend using any of these "instantly add fish" products. While they might work, and get bacteria going quickly, there is a lot more to tank cycling. This is one point where you want to take your time. Add the traditional shrimp and wait. I'd also all a few small pieces of live rock to help seed the system.

All too often people try these "instant add fish" products, and have some sort of problem and wonder why then have a massive ammonia spike and a tank of very dead fish.

 

[Crowther]

I don't recommend using any of these "instantly add fish" products. While they might work, and get bacteria going quickly, there is a lot more to tank cycling. This is one point where you want to take your time. Add the traditional shrimp and wait. I'd also all a few small pieces of live rock to help seed the system.

All too often people try these "instant add fish" products, and have some sort of problem and wonder why then have a massive ammonia spike and a tank of very dead fish.

Dave, my concern with live rock is the risk of hitchhikers. What are your thoughts about relying on the Arag-Alive to seed?

 

[Pat24601]

Dave, my concern with live rock is the risk of hitchhikers. What are your thoughts about relying on the Arag-Alive to seed?

BTW, I personally think your fear of hitchikers is wise. I know there are different philosophies on that with many feeling that's part of the fun, but I have enough problems in life without asking for more when I don't have to.

I have some brs reef saver in my tank. I like it.

I don't know anything about Arag-Alive.

 

[Crowther]

BTW, I personally think your fear of hitchikers is wise. I know there are different philosophies on that with many feeling that's part of the fun, but I have enough problems in life without asking for more when I don't have to.

I have some brs reef saver in my tank. I like it.

I don't know anything about Arag-Alive.

Supposedly, the Arag-Alive contains a bunch of helpful bacteria. Time will tell I suppose.

My current plan is to hold off on live rock and see how it goes. Once the dry rock has cured in tank for a couple of weeks and I've done a couple water changes, I'll introduce my CUC and start feeding them small amounts of algae wafers and pellets if sufficient algae hasn't developed on its own.

At that point, I'm hopeful my bacteria will really start growing and I'll get some coralline from the introduction of the CUC. Then, maybe I'll add a fish. Then, eventually, some day, some coral.

 

[Florida Sunshine]

I understand the fear of hitchikers, but to me that is part of the fun. You can get some cool stuff. Of course you can also get nasty stuff, but when you start adding corals they are going to come on small pieces of LR or frag plugs and can introduce those same nasty critters then. I would go with Dave's suggestion and add a small amount of LR to seed all of the dry rock. Pick out one or two pieces and let it go at that and you are minimizing your risk.
Regardless of if you add any LR, I would still cycle the tank by adding a piece of shrimp or another ammonia source. This is the only way you will know you have your bacteria going strong. If the stuff in the bottle is as good as some say, then it will convert the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate quickly. If not you allow the natural bacteria to build and do the processing for you.

 

[DaveK]

Dave, my concern with live rock is the risk of hitchhikers. What are your thoughts about relying on the Arag-Alive to seed?

Yes, it is possible to get unwanted hitchhikers. However I don't see this as a serious problem, especially when compared to the advantages you get from a good bacteria base, and hitchhikers you want such as pods. Also, once you add your first coral and it comes on any sort of base, you run similar risks. That small base is usually a piece of live rock.

There really are very few unwanted hitchhikers that you can't control as long as you don't ignore them.

As for products such as Arag-Alive, I consider them to be questionable at best. They are not going to hurt anything, but you can't really tell if the bacteria on it is still alive. Improper shipping, storage, and age can reduce any bacteria to very low amounts. In other words, using them is a bit of a crap shoot. It might work, but then again if all the handling wasn't perfect, it has a good chance of not working.

 

[Crowther]

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions. I'm going to perform a test to see if the Arag-Alive works. If the shrimp doesn't get converted to nitrite and then nitrate, I'll either add the ATM Colony or a piece of live rock. In that scenario, it seems each would have it's potential benefits and drawbacks. The live rock would likely supply the aquarium with other added benefits such as coralline, but carries the risk of bad hitchhikers. The ATM Colony would eliminate the risk of bad hitchhikers in my tank's infancy, but would deprive me of the benefit of other helpful organisms. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Pat24601]

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions. I'm going to perform a test to see if the Arag-Alive works. If the shrimp doesn't get converted to nitrite and then nitrate, I'll either add the ATM Colony or a piece of live rock. In that scenario, it seems each would have it's potential benefits and drawbacks. The live rock would likely supply the aquarium with other added benefits such as coralline, but carries the risk of bad hitchhikers. The ATM Colony would eliminate the risk of bad hitchhikers in my tank's infancy, but would deprive me of the benefit of other helpful organisms. Decisions, decisions.

That's pretty much this hobby.

The good news is that there really isn't a wrong way, in my opinion. One way or another, you will end up with a cycled tank eventually and you seem to be patient enough to wait for that to happen.

The only other tidbit I would add is that while the vast majority of people view corraline as good, DaveK has pointed out in the past he views it as just another nuisance algae...albeit a pretty one. So, you may or may not view that as a plus.

I never really had a lot of corraline growth, although I had some. I was fine with that.

 

[Crowther]

That's pretty much this hobby.

The good news is that there really isn't a wrong way, in my opinion. One way or another, you will end up with a cycled tank eventually and you seem to be patient enough to wait for that to happen.

The only other tidbit I would add is that while the vast majority of people view corraline as good, DaveK has pointed out in the past he views it as just another nuisance algae...albeit a pretty one. So, you may or may not view that as a plus.

I never really had a lot of corraline growth, although I had some. I was fine with that.

Interesting point about the coralline. I had read others' opinions who seem to share that view: that it is just another nuisance algae that will necessitate glass scraping etc. without much of a benefit. As I understand it, the benefits are that: 1) it bonds the rock together (not much of an issue if it's already secured in scape prep), 2) it looks pretty (beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose), 3) it prevents the growth of other nuisance flora (not if you consider it a nuisance), 4) it acts as a barometer of sorts indicative of over-all tank health (we have lots of other tests at our disposal), and 5) it is a good food source for herbivores (it does, however, necessitate calcium supplementation). So, decisions, decisions. I agree, there really is no right or wrong choice here.

 

[DaveK]

Once you start scraping coraline algae off the front glass and off of any equipment inside the tank, and see how tough this can be, you'll see why I consider it to be just a different nuisance algae. At least green hair algae come off easily.

 

[SPR]

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions. I'm going to perform a test to see if the Arag-Alive works. If the shrimp doesn't get converted to nitrite and then nitrate, I'll either add the ATM Colony or a piece of live rock. In that scenario, it seems each would have it's potential benefits and drawbacks. The live rock would likely supply the aquarium with other added benefits such as coralline, but carries the risk of bad hitchhikers. The ATM Colony would eliminate the risk of bad hitchhikers in my tank's infancy, but would deprive me of the benefit of other helpful organisms. Decisions, decisions.

I am still a learning on all of this and I certainly wouldn't argue against the vast experience on here about the benefits of the bacteria promoted by a rotting shrimp, time etc. But what's the difference between putting a shrimp in and leaving it to rot for x weeks/months to get the bacteria, or emptying a bottled of pre prepared bacteria which is ready to go with no bad things in it?

I can only say I've used it twice and had absolutely no isssues with it and Red Sea do something similar although I think it's takes longer called Reef Mature Pro although I haven't used it. I'm not promoting Colony at all, but all I can say is it's worked for me, and you can read the reviews etc. Pour it in and your good to go immediately, although I left mine a few days before adding fish. I'm blessed with patience you see!

Anyway (DaveK) I have my hard hat on waiting so be kind! Lol

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

If interested... two really good reads on cycling a tank and just what is going on...

Newbies, a little something on cycling/breaking in a new reef tank.

The Mature Aquarium

and a bio on one of the RS members ^
Lee's Bio (a.k.a. leebca)

 

[Pat24601]

Once you start scraping coraline algae off the front glass and off of any equipment inside the tank, and see how tough this can be, you'll see why I consider it to be just a different nuisance algae. At least green hair algae come off easily.

I can attest to this. I liked coraline until I had to get it off my tank.

 

[DaveK]

...Anyway (DaveK) I have my hard hat on waiting so be kind! Lol

I have already told everyone my opinion on this. I need not repeat myself.

The problem I have with your post is that you have used the product twice and are touting the product at something everyone should be doing.

Keep in mind that one of the ways people formally cycled a tank was to add one or two fish and just let them suffer through the initial cycle. That method did work too and also let you put fish in right away. It's considered a poor method today.

 

[DaveK]

I can attest to this. I liked coraline until I had to get it off my tank.

Another convert!

Years ago there was a crabs are evil society on here. Perhaps it time for a coraline algae is evil society?

 

[Crowther]

Another convert!

Years ago there was a crabs are evil society on here. Perhaps it time for a coraline algae is evil society?

I was reading one of the posts recommended by nanoreefing4fun (awesome posts by the way) that warned against hermit crabs. Any idea why?

Another convert!

Years ago there was a crabs are evil society on here. Perhaps it time for a coraline algae is evil society?

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

that warned against hermit crabs. Any idea why?

in short... crabs love to eat escargot (and anything else they can get a hold of...) and many love snails for cuc - some love crabs others not...

this long thread... will tell you both sides... I love snails for cuc

Crabs Are Evil Society

 

[DaveK]

Crabs are feeders of opportunity. In other words, they will eat anything they can catch. The small hermits generally used as clean up crews are usually to small to do any damage, but larger crabs have been known to catch fish when they are asleep.

If your considering a crab, you usually want to avoid the swimming crabs. That have paddles on the last pair of legs. An example is the blue crab which is often on seafood menus. Also avoid crabs where the claws that look like the jaws of needle nose pliers. Gorilla crabs and stone crabs are examples of these.

If you do find these unwanted crabs in your tank, they are usually easy enough to remove. Some people put them in the sump where they can't get anything in the display tank.