bluespotjawfish
Well-Known Member
Glad you got your replacement salt! Have you thought about a few good sized water change instead of all this dosing? Of course, you would want to make sure your replacement salt has all the right levels. Does it?
Calc levels . . .
- Thread starter BigAl07
- Start date
I do know where a lot of other countries are, I think. Guess I should get amap for my wall above the computer monitor. I just noticed it is very bare there. But I could put a shelf there and another tank, or more books. Books on tanks! There is one I want really bad that is expensive and been out of print for years. The aquarium book for engineers.
Aquatic Systems Engineering: Devices and How They Function
Author: Pedro Ramon Escobal The cost of a used book is between $125 and $175 plus shipping.
Aquatic Systems Engineering: Devices and How They Function
Author: Pedro Ramon Escobal The cost of a used book is between $125 and $175 plus shipping.
Ok here's the latest! Got an update for yall 
I got the New Reef Crystals in today...
I tested the NEW batch with 1 gallon mixed to 1.024, 79',
MG 1200
Alk 4 mEq/L (11.2dKh)
Calc 420
Existing Reef Crystals same parameters as above
MG 1500
Alk 2.5 (7.0 dKh)
Calc 340
Existing 90g system (been dosing 2part some this week)
Mg 1600
Alk 2.5 (7.0 dKh)
Calc 380
So WHAT does this mean? Honestly these numbers are JUST that... numbers and don't have a LOT of meaning other than it took a LOT of time to "acquire" them.
I got the New Reef Crystals in today...
I tested the NEW batch with 1 gallon mixed to 1.024, 79',
MG 1200
Alk 4 mEq/L (11.2dKh)
Calc 420
Existing Reef Crystals same parameters as above
MG 1500
Alk 2.5 (7.0 dKh)
Calc 340
Existing 90g system (been dosing 2part some this week)
Mg 1600
Alk 2.5 (7.0 dKh)
Calc 380
So WHAT does this mean? Honestly these numbers are JUST that... numbers and don't have a LOT of meaning other than it took a LOT of time to "acquire" them.
reefsmoker
Member
Maybe a bad batch of reef crystal? sun exposure? I did notice your alk is low. wow where's hma (Heinz) when you need him? hehe
bluespotjawfish
Well-Known Member
Chemistry and the Aquarium
I assume you already have this article and have studied it to death...
You new batch of salt looks much, much better! Add mag to get it to 1350 ppm. calc/alk is good.
I assume you already have this article and have studied it to death...
You new batch of salt looks much, much better! Add mag to get it to 1350 ppm. calc/alk is good.
For one I would say that the new batch of Reef Crystals you just got is an exceptionally good batch, as you got a mix that provide both a high calcium and a high alkalinity. Not an easy mix o make. However I doubt that they would have gotten both those levels that high and still gotten the magnesium levels up to 1500.
I myself would just do at least a fifty percent water change with water made up of the new mix and if that comes close to bring your numbers on line then I would make up the difference with supplements, or even better yet do another large water change. After a second large water change I would not expect any thing to be out of line but possibly your magnesium, and it should not be appreciably low. I would not try to raise the magnesium to 1500 if the calcium is over 400 and the alkalinity is over 10 or 10.5, 1300 or 1400 is usually adequate.
Using large water changes is not a really large expense considering all that is at stake. I myself would try to bring levels to near desired with new water, and then do small adjustments and maintenance additions above what new water supplies with supplements. The excesses in your tank are not going to disappear just by saturating or over saturating your water in another direction.
"Bad Boy" Heinz can easily be reached by PM.
I myself would just do at least a fifty percent water change with water made up of the new mix and if that comes close to bring your numbers on line then I would make up the difference with supplements, or even better yet do another large water change. After a second large water change I would not expect any thing to be out of line but possibly your magnesium, and it should not be appreciably low. I would not try to raise the magnesium to 1500 if the calcium is over 400 and the alkalinity is over 10 or 10.5, 1300 or 1400 is usually adequate.
Using large water changes is not a really large expense considering all that is at stake. I myself would try to bring levels to near desired with new water, and then do small adjustments and maintenance additions above what new water supplies with supplements. The excesses in your tank are not going to disappear just by saturating or over saturating your water in another direction.
"Bad Boy" Heinz can easily be reached by PM.
hma
Well-Known Member
Hi Al, I would make only two to three water changes during the coming days as Lorraine had already recommended. There dKH as well as PH in normal area are no problem is given obviously. Magnesium will adapt itself automatic ones as well as you start again with 2 part. Should calcium be still also too low next week, I would easily raise the dosage, the magnesium should thereby also sink. To raise dKH I would use Natriumhydrogencarbonat (backed soda). However, it is not necessary, actually, with dKH 7.
bluespotjawfish = Lorraine (read her signature... signs it with her name)
I have a CRAZY weekend ahead of me but I'll probably do a 50% or so W/C tomorrow and keep working on it till the numbers come back into par.
Thank you EVERYONE for your input. Yall rock
Is that because of nutrient deprivation. I can not see how the difference in the 25 percent change and a fifty percent change will effect the good bacteria if the temperature, pH, salinity and dissolved oxygen levels are nearly the same. I am an engineer with a minor in chemistry though (I did organic chem, inorganic chem and analytical chem not biology), and not a biologist. What am I not thinking about or seeing that makes a difference here? My schooling in regards to bacteria is in waste water treatment, and aquatic water chemistry (for environmental engineers) which mainly deals with effects of discharges in to waterways and there effects on aquatic systems. I know many people who do 50 percent changes regularly. I do not, I use a pump and replace 4 percent daily. I understand that higher level invertebrates, as well as fish, like small or no changes to water parameters more than large changes, but I am at a loss here in regard to the larger water changes effects on the bacteria. I assume it must have something to do with something besides, pH, temp, dissolved oxygen, and nutrients. Three 25 percent water changes will probaly be about half as effective as one 50 percent water change in its effects in changing concentrations of calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. What am I missing?
lcstorc
Well-Known Member
Lorraine just posted a really good chemistry link that we use often. She wasn't making fun of anybody. I don't remember if he is the author of that particular one but many are by Randy Holmes Farley who I believe you respect. We depend a lot on his great writing.
Here are a couple more Al that may be helpful if you don't already have them.
Calcium and Alkalinity by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Reef Chemistry Calculator
The calculator also tells you how much of a change is recommended at a time to get what results.
Here are a couple more Al that may be helpful if you don't already have them.
Calcium and Alkalinity by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Reef Chemistry Calculator
The calculator also tells you how much of a change is recommended at a time to get what results.
bluespotjawfish
Well-Known Member
I'm Lorraine! 
Heinz was referring to this post.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/33408-calc-levels-4.html#post495383
Al - I'm lazy and so would go on the larger side as well so I didn't have to do as many. You can also take out 25% (or whatever % you feel is right), then add 10% new water, take out 10%, add 10%, take out 10%...as many times as you feel is necessary...
Heinz - I'm not sure I understood what you were saying about the mag automatically adjusting. I always have to add mag to my new SW, and periodically to the tank to keep the levels at 1300-1350. I run a kalk reactor on one of the tanks, but rarely dose anything on the other tank.
Heinz was referring to this post.http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/33408-calc-levels-4.html#post495383
Al - I'm lazy and so would go on the larger side as well so I didn't have to do as many. You can also take out 25% (or whatever % you feel is right), then add 10% new water, take out 10%, add 10%, take out 10%...as many times as you feel is necessary...
Heinz - I'm not sure I understood what you were saying about the mag automatically adjusting. I always have to add mag to my new SW, and periodically to the tank to keep the levels at 1300-1350. I run a kalk reactor on one of the tanks, but rarely dose anything on the other tank.
hma
Well-Known Member
With 50% water change I change the living conditions for corals, fish and invertebrates as well as for the denitrification bacteria (Nitrosoma/Nitrobacter) dramatically and for all other animals unusual. In the sea it never comes too such to quick changes, the animals have big problems with the adaptation to the new conditions. As an example I would like to call the change of the osmotic pressure of the single cells which can lead up to their destruction. One can reach substantially faster an adaptation of the values with 50% of water change though is right but definitive not to recommend.
Another reason why one should not make a 50% WC is the fact; fresh salted water has for approx. 12-24 hours a relatively high toxic portion. With the high change rate I raise also the toxicity in the aquarium, even if only for a short time. Also this is unknown to ALL living beings in the aquarium, they have developed no defences against it and react differently sensitively to it.
In any case it is better to change weekly 10-20% of water, as 30-50% only once a month. Even if many make a big water change, it does not mean yet is also right.
Whemn I asked about the making fun of me part I was just funning with Heinz. I never realised there is a Lorraine as I usually just look at the User names. I had just previously replied, just before Heinz's reply, that the person should do several water changes, not remembering some one else suggested the same. So when Heinz said Lorraine said do water changes I thought maybe it was a juke aimed at me that I did not understand. I thought it had something to do with the "Bad Boy" ribbing I have given him. I was in error, I should be more retentive - - Oops, I mean attentive. I believe I have read every thing Randy has ever posted in the way of studies, articles or tests, most likely. I use the Reef chemistry calculator many times every week. I have found Randy Holmes-Farley only to be contradictory once (about iodine usage) and can only remember finding fault in one small thing he wrote once and that was the statement that aragonite and crushed coral are both calcium carbonate and that calcium carbonate dissolved in marine water at a such and such pH. Where as aragonite and calcium carbonate (crushed coral) dissolve at different marine water pH's. But then there is the long argument that aragonite is a form of calcium carbonate, yes as is halite. Well graphite and a diamond are both carbon, no one claims they dissolve in the same marine water pH or are of equal hardness. It is most typical for a chemical compound that has differing geometric arrangements in its structure but the same chemical formulas to have different physical properties and because of that dissolve at different pH's or have vastly different hardnesses or melting points etc. Not that any of this or that matters. When I have difficulties believing something Randy writes I can generally go to a chemistry reference book or even a text book or two or three. The man is sharp when it comes to chemistry, and that opinion is coming from a man who's grandfather was a chemistry professor. With many individuals writings there are no references or books that they draw from so I can not read back ground information in order to grasp what they are saying or why. Thank fully this is not the case with most of Randy's work.
hma
Well-Known Member
I'm Lorraine!
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/33408-calc-levels-4.html#post495383
Al - I'm lazy and so would go on the larger side as well so I didn't have to do as many. You can also take out 25% (or whatever % you feel is right), then add 10% new water, take out 10%, add 10%, take out 10%...as many times as you feel is necessary...
Heinz - I'm not sure I understood what you were saying about the mag automatically adjusting. I always have to add mag to my new SW, and periodically to the tank to keep the levels at 1300-1350. I run a kalk reactor on one of the tanks, but rarely dose anything on the other tank.
Hi Lorraine, I has meant only the PRESENT SITUATION in Al's tank. I must only adapt a magnesium (1300) when the calcium is approx. 420-430. Besides, the Salinität must be 34.5 - 35%.
lcstorc
Well-Known Member
Absolutely!
Randy is awesome and many of his articles are written in a way the typical hobbiest can understand. Some go over my head but many I actually understand and all of them I trust.
That is why we use his links very often.
Heinz has also proven himself many times so he is another I respect and frequently learn from. His tanks are all the evidence I need that he knows what he is doing.
Randy is awesome and many of his articles are written in a way the typical hobbiest can understand. Some go over my head but many I actually understand and all of them I trust.
That is why we use his links very often.
Heinz has also proven himself many times so he is another I respect and frequently learn from. His tanks are all the evidence I need that he knows what he is doing.