algae turf scrubber verses protein skimmer

[carnavor]

Compareing a skimmer to a algae turf scrubber, set up to a exsiting filtration system.

ats removes: nutrients, ammonia, nitrate, phosphate, heavy metals.
ats maintenance: screen scraping once a week.
ats: doe's not remove vitamins,trace elements, minerals near as much as a skimmer.
ats: produces lots of food in the water column, reef flora (worms, copepods, amphipods, sponges and microalgae to name a few) food for the reef, corals and fish.
ats: only electric is for compact fluorescent lighting ,very low watt consumption.
only reason ats have not been the alternative to protein skimming is people like sprung and other authors have bad mouthed them, and look at them a a sole filtration system, when a ats is set up like a protein skimmers (add on to exsiting filtration system) .a skimmer does't even compair to a ats.

feed back please

 

[ddelozier]

I've setup a hanging overflow fed ATS on my 65g. Running 3 months without a skimmer. The water has never been more clear, My corals and fish are thriving, The tank is MUCH quieter, and in 3 months, i've never once had to scrape the glass on my DT.

Tests
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
Calcium 420
PH 8.2
Temp 79 F

Skimmers and scrubbers are designed to accomplish the same thing, but do so in a different way. Skimmer uses Bubbles to extract organic proteins from the water. It will capture small amounts of Nitrate/phosphate, but not much, which is why GFO, GAC and other filtration exist, to capture the inorganic compounds the skimmer just cant get. When the organic compounds and proteins that DONT make it to the skimmer for extraction break down, they break down into IN-Organic compounds, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Phosphate, and Silicates. A turf scrubber concentrates on these Inorganic compounds. IMHO, thats the smarter way to go about it. Food sinks, poo sinks, dead organisms sink. They dont magically float up to the overflow to be stripped out by the skimmer.

Skimmers and ATS do things differently, and both have benifits. However, the majority of people dont understand what an Algae scrubber does for them. Those who claim a scrubber is useless have never had one setup and running right.
Many claims exist, but lets look at pros/cons just for fun.

Skimmer Pros:
Extracts organics(but only those that come through the skimmer)
Oxygenates the Water Column

Skimmer Cons
Expensive
Strips out metals and trace elements
Cant strip out Inorganic Compounds like Nitrate/nitrite/ammonia/phosphate
Noisy(mine certainly was)
Requires frequent adjustment(some do some dont)

Algae Scrubber Pros
strips out Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate
Extracts CO2, from the water
Extracts heavy metals
Adds Oxygen to the water both through Photosynthesis of algae, and surface contact with air.
Cheap to buy
Easy to build
Quiet

Algae Scrubber Cons:
Needs to be cleaned once a week.

HMMMM. Let me think. LOL. The main reason IMHO that scrubbers are less popular than skimmers is PR. Skimmer manafacturers build high tech devices, have R&D Departments, Advertising budgets ETC. Skimmers can be built by people who are good at DIY, but they are tough to get designed right. Scrubbers can be built by a novice with very little engineering and DIY experience. People wont pay money for something they can easily build themselves. As for me, Ive gone totally skimmerless and my tanks, fish and corals are looking better than ever.

lets do math. Good skimmer for 100g tank, 250-400 bucks. Multi stage reactor that handles GFO and GAC 200+. Refill mats for GFO/GAC 20+ every couple months. Thats 400-600 bucks. If i told you you could build something for less than 100(more like 50) that would replace all 3.....wouldnt you if you were a company that sells skimmers/reactors and refill mats, Do a PR campaign to make scrubbers seem horendous? Scrubbers are a more natural filtration than Skimmers/reactors, because they use the same filtration system the ocean uses. Now lets wait, for the 1200+ Posts of people telling me im a Nut.

 

[theplantman]

DD - your not a nut and all your logic makes absolutely perfect sense. Every water garden I have ever designed has been without a mechanical filter. Reason.... natural balance between plant life and animal life can be achieved if designed and executed properly. Now, that means a stream bed to oxygenate the water well and remove solids and a bog that has been planted with the appropriate amount of submerged aquatics and proper planting in the main pond to provide enough shade to assist the de-nitrifying plants in controlling algae blooms. Result....crystal clear, non stinky water all year round.

The same can be accomplished in aquaria, even in reef aquaria. Proper balance must be obtained, that's all. Unfortunately, most reef aquariums are extremely heavily stocked and personal preference and comfort will come in to play. I personally will not run my tank without a protein skimmer but I run an Aqua C which is pretty quiet and extremely reliable, that said, as my stocking increases over the next few months, I plan on adding an algae scrubber instead of all the gfo/carbon/purigen/chemipure/ blah blah blah reactors and media.

 

[BigAl07]

I'm a huge fan of the ATS now that I'm using one. I've got a UAS HOG.5 in my office tank here (no skimmer) and it has literally removed almost any sign of GHA from my tank. I still have some Bryopsis and Valonia but even those are steadily declining. I've changed nothing else to this system or my routine other than adding the HOG.5

I'm planning to add a HOG1 to my RSM130D possibly this weekend if I get around to it.

 

[Bearjohnson]

I won't set up any system without an ATS. I was like most who had to be convinced first before believing. So I started with just a simple bucket version and was hooked on the idea shortly thereafter.

Simple to maintain and easy enough to build in any custom design configuration to fit any tank design.

 

[PSU4ME]

LOVE the 5 year thread revival.....just goes to show how things come in and out of this hobby.

I'm thinking of adding a ATS to my tank but i'm just unsure how to do it at this point in time. Looking at room in my sump area is the biggest concern. Cleaning it once a week should be pretty easy. I think the more natural the approach is the better your tank is but you still need to be able to keep the numbers down. I currently use GFO and would need to dial that down as the ats took hold.

I'm going to go look at some DIY designs!

 

[Bearjohnson]

If I can help out in any way, don't hesitate to reach out and ask.

Mark

LOVE the 5 year thread revival.....just goes to show how things come in and out of this hobby.

I'm thinking of adding a ATS to my tank but i'm just unsure how to do it at this point in time. Looking at room in my sump area is the biggest concern. Cleaning it once a week should be pretty easy. I think the more natural the approach is the better your tank is but you still need to be able to keep the numbers down. I currently use GFO and would need to dial that down as the ats took hold.

I'm going to go look at some DIY designs!

 

[ddelozier]

Me too. DIY hanging scrubber is dirt simple.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

good :read: enjoying...

 

[DaveK]

Having used both algae turf scrubbers and skimmers, I don't see one as being a clear winner over the other. You need to consider that they work differently and do different things. The key here is that it all gets back to what you want to keep in the system. Another factor is that this need not be an "either or" choice. You can use both and get the advantages of both.

Also, do not discount mechanical filtration or chemical filtration or refugiums. There are times and reasons for these also. Just because it's possible to keep a system using only one of the basic filtration methods does not mean that it's the best thing to do. It's quite possible to use and or all of them. Just don't fall into the trap of using everything thinking "more is better". Only use what you need to get the results you want. I also recommend a healthy dose of scepticism about any filtration system or method when extreme claims are made. If it sounds too good to be true ...

If you are thinking about a DIY algae turf scrubber, there is no reason not to do so. The parts are cheep enough, and for a trial, you just need to get it to work. It need not be perfect. Then judge for yourself.

One last though, before you add another basic method of filtration, consider the end result. For example, if your tank is already in fantastic shape adding something else is most likely only going to give you modest results. If fact, in certain cases, you could make things worse. Please keep in mind that I'm talking about filtration in general, and not directing this at algae scrubbing. At the other extreme, if your tank is a algae farm disaster area, rethink your entire filtration system and the tank setup first, before you add anything else. You might be better off just starting from scratch on the filtration.

 

[rhogeo]

BigAl, did you get the scrubber hooked up?

 

[kmdrysdale]

Definitely an interesting thread! I'm tagging along.

 

[JoeCanada11]

I've been reading alot about these ATSs recently. I really like the idea of something that will help produce food in the water column as well as filter my aquarium better. I would love a sump/fuge in my RSM but budget says I need to wait a while. Would it be fairly easy to set up a DIY ATS in the back of my RSM where the skimmer currently is.

 

[Bearjohnson]

I've been reading alot about these ATSs recently. I really like the idea of something that will help produce food in the water column as well as filter my aquarium better. I would love a sump/fuge in my RSM but budget says I need to wait a while. Would it be fairly easy to set up a DIY ATS in the back of my RSM where the skimmer currently is.

You can set one up any where near the tank as long as you can gravity feed back to your sump. I've found that a pump in the sump feeding the ATS is just easier than trying to use some of the overflow water to supply the ATS with flow although it can be done.

My old system on my 150 was mounted on the side of the tank and plumbed behind the tank to and from the sump.

If you have any other questions fire away