yeah i must say the sedra's are nice and quiet. i think thats more of a factor for me, i know both pumps are very reliable. i also realize the needle wheel is way more advanced, technology wise, when compared to downdraft skimmers. better or not i have no idea. but i think i am talking myself into the ASM, with a little help from my friends here, thanks again guys/girls i feel i am close to making a decision.