Ultra algae x

[Fishdad1]

Dinos are getting really bad. I'm syphoning out 5 gallon buckets everyday between 1 and 2 pm. The substrate is harboring minimal growth but the rock work is coated. I syphon it and its back in 15 minutes. Haven't done any turkey basting. Gorgonian and tree corals are closed up and wilted again. Removed four dead snails. Still have two big turbos left. Not sure if this method is going to work without loosing all my livestock first. However fish are eating and active.

 

[Mike Johnson]

One critter that is known to eat dinos is Scarlet Hermit Crabs. I remember now that I had a friend (fish store owner) introduce a couple dozen along with the siphoning every day. They won't help with your big problem, but they definitely would help it from recurring after you get it under control. Scarlet Hermits are the most reef safe of any crab and also one of the few animals identified to eat hair algae and dinos.

Keep at it, it seems you're making progress. Like I said it might take 2 - 3 weeks. Have you reduced your light period to about 8 hours a day? And your temp at least down to 77?

 

[Fishdad1]

I'll definitely try the scarlet hermits. Main lighting period has never been more than six hours. Blues are on for 8. I reduced the temp controllers, but I actually can't get it to naturally fall below 77-78.

 

[Fishdad1]

Dino growth has decreased today, especially on the substrate... almost nothing. For some reason it likes to grow on an old acro skeleton in my rock work. I think the hermits are helping too, thanks for the suggestion Mike.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I'm going to answer your pm question as soon as I put that chapter in my book together.

Any small piece of rubble will act just like a sand bed that isn't deep enough to be anaerobic but too deep to be aerobic. They absorb nitrate, but the denitrifying bacteria aren't colonizing it. I just took several of those small pieces out of one of my tanks yesterday. They are algae magnets. Or you can clean them and put them back it every time they get covered with algae.

Real glad you're seeing improvement.

I noticed a thread by you about magnesium. Another way to keep excessive algae blooms down is to keep magnesium above 1350. Plus it's good for everything else. Magnesium is very important - alk and calcium won't be in equilibrium without it. Also, very important for every living organism, even humans.

 

[Fishdad1]

Good to know about mag. Sounds like you think I should change out my sand bed.

 

[Mike Johnson]

No, I wasn't thinking that. But, since you mentioned it, how deep is your sand bed?

 

[Fishdad1]

Averages about 1 inch, there are 2 or 3 spots where it is more like 2 inches at the highest. I haven't noticed the depth making a difference in where the dinos grow but the larger pieces of rubble for sure attract them. Its a combination of caribsea live sand and seashell gravel left over from my African cichlid setup. I've since regretted leaving some of the seashell gravel in there.

 

[Fishdad1]

Just out of curiosity, I've read that quite a lot of people who finally get rid of dinos tend to get cyano and hair outbreaks. Are there any preventative measures I can take to avoid another algae outbreak when these dinos are eliminated?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Since you're doing the exact same thing that I would recommend to control red slime, I doubt it. Part of this whole process you're going through is to let algae grow also. Using a herbicide is setting yourself up for a bacterial or diatom bloom.

So now you've brought it up. What I've been thinking about writing about the question, Why does this algae or bacteria or diatom take over a tank.

Something in a tank is going to grow to consume the nutrients in it. Our goal is for that something to be corals and algae. Of course there's always going to be bacteria and diatoms in there too, but we don't want them to take control.

Before going further I will give you a personal experience: I've got a tank that I use to grow aiptasia and Red Dictyota, Nitophyllum, in. It was going just great for a long time; no other nuisance algae. I take those rocks out when they've grown up and put them in the DT for my tang and filefish. They both grow in the DT but those fish keep them cleaned up. Okay, somehow I imported this light green cyanobacteria into the DT, (frag?). There was hardly any in there, but by transferring the rocks to the growout tank where the Dictyota is no competition to the cyanobacteria for the available nutrients. The green cyano smothered everything in no time. It still won't grow to plague proportions in the DT even if I put it in there. Because there are competitors more competent to consume the nutrients in that tank.

So, it's a matter of excess nutrients in a tank that causes plagues of diatoms, cyano, bacteria.

This is old news. The news is now that your tank will do much better if it is not stripped of nutrients and it will grow algae. The secret is that you don't want to grow the algae in your DT. Of course growing macro algae in your DT is something that I strive for. That's why I'll leave the tank to mature at least 6-9 months before I'll put a fish that eats algae in. The tang and blenny and angelfish keep it cropped where you can't even see it, but if you put one of those rocks in a tank without herbivores in it will grow back. Well, that's what I do with the rocks.

I convinced that what BearJohnson is doing with an algae scrubber or PaulB with his algae trough, and numerous others, is the most knowledgeable way to do it at this time. Of course, we learn something new every few years.

I'm a little old school myself and have been considering another way, but what I'm doing is working. I have a large section of macro algae under an intense light in my sump. To do it this way you need a rather large amount of algae. People that don't have success are those who trim it too early or are just using a baseball size clump.

To sum it up: Be careful not to introduce bad algae, bacteria, diatoms into your tank. Don't do the 0 nutrient water thing. Have a way to export nutrients. There's vodka, vinegar, bio pellets. Those ways depend on a skimmer to export the nutrients.

To maintain low levels of phosphate in your aquarium, you can feed your aquarium sparingly, use kalkwasser, use an effective protein skimmer, perform regular water changes, incorporate phosphate-removing media, or integrate a refugium with algae.

 

[Fishdad1]

Great summation Mike, it sounds like I'm at least doing some things correctly. For nutrient exportation I am going the biopellet and gfo route since I really don't have space for an algae scrubber, though I wish I did.

So far no other algae growth except coralline. Its taken off in the past few days and the dinos were definitely weakened today.

 

[Fishdad1]

Zero dinos visible as of this morning.

 

[Fishdad1]

For whatever reason the last remaining dino growth is localized to the face of my overflow box. Strange. Still doing daily syphons.

 

[Fishdad1]

Oh by the way, if Mischko is still following this thread, he had asked for silica readings in relation to the dino outbreak. Well I finally got a silica test kit by seachem and they came in at <1ppm. I tested it against the sample and it appears to be an accurate kit. It has the ability to do a low range test by I don't think that's necessary.

 

[Paul B]

This is old news. The news is now that your tank will do much better if it is not stripped of nutrients and it will grow algae. The secret is that you don't want to grow the algae in your DT.

Wow, something I agree with and I don't agree with much

 

[Fishdad1]

Little update... Dinos were almost beaten back by methods described above. However for some reason they are making a major come back. For the past week they have grown enough to cover the substrate and begin to smother coral. I have not missed daily siphoning by even one day. I've going to replace my gfo as it is 3 weeks old. We'll see if that helps. Trates are 5ppm and phates are 0, but I suppose as gfo runs out dinos could consume the excess in the system.

 

[slfcaptain]

That sucks! Don't give up, you are a higher life form and should win! Right?

steve

 

[Mr.Reeefer]

I just caught up on the thread, Great info by Mike, and good job on ceasing to dose from a bottle.

We are all keeping a part of nature in our home and we need to let nature take its course with some assistance from us, it is generally known that solutions in a bottle may temporarily resolve a problem but will generally lead to another problem, then in goes another solution and another and before you know it your part of nature crashes.

IMO, reduce your lighting intensity and duration, still ramp it up to 100% but only for an hour a day, then keep it at 60%, only run the lights for 8 hours a day, and total darkness for 3 hours per night. you won't achieve coral growth doing this but I guess at the moment that isn't the main focus.

What I also I recommend which others wouldn't but has worked wonders for me is SCRUB, get it off your rock, and after you have scrubbed, siphon your bottom, suck up some sand if you have too, then change your pre filtration Immediately, and do this everyday. At the moment your outbreak is chewing up all your excess nutrients which is helping them to grow and stopping other algae from growing, when you have spent a few days or weeks scrubbing and eliminating what's in your DT, you should start getting other algae starting to form on your LR including coraline. then your problem has a problem, competition!! Once you reach this stage it should be smooth sailing!!
it is fact that disturbing the substance will cause bubbles which contain spurs, but when I scrubbed, siphoned and changed prefiltration, didn't cause me any issues and helped my situation remarkably.

Good luck, don't tear your tank down, your don't need to, I do on the other hand, ich outbreak and too much rock and coral to catch them, so tonight out it all comes, fish in QT, and then it all goes back in! Fun fun!!