Ultra algae x

[Fishdad1]

I'm calling on a new weapon against my war with dinos. For the past few months my main tactic has been more of an anti insurgency method - just keep them from gaining a foothold and see if they give up. The past few days it seems they have been gaining some ground. So before I go nuclear (total prevention of light for three days) I will try Ultra Algae X. It's not without risks but claims to leave all livestock unharmed if dosed properly.

My outbreak thus far is minimal compared to others that I've seen but this is something that I believe needs to be dealt with early. Tanks that get overrun are absolutely disgusting looking.

 

[Bearjohnson]

Have you tested for phosphates at all?

How long has the tank been running?

 

[Fishdad1]

Tank has been up for about 5 months. Phosphates have been anywhere from .04 to undetectable depending on age of GFO. Dinos should up about 2 months ago. They definitely get worse as the gfo becomes exhausted.

 

[Mischko]

Hi fishdad, I'd try something else first before you get the heavy artillery out. There are 2 variants of dinos, one half is autotroph and the other heterotroph.
The autotrophes roughly said feed like green algae. They need light and trace elements for the photosynthesis.
The heterotroph ones feed on wide spectrum of phytoplankton, also on diatoms! Even on debris in your tank. You see that using Algae Ex may not work at all for you. Now knowing that one half of Dinos feeds on e. g. diatoms I'd check the water you use to top off or for water changes. It might be a good idea to test for Silicate since this is consumed by diatoms. You might also want to use a silicate absorber behind your OS to filter silicate out.
Now when you say dinos get worse when the GFO gets exhausted, what does that mean? Most GFO's also absorb silicate! Guess you need to check for silicate consumed by diatoms being consumed by dinos.

 

[Fishdad1]

My RO/DI water comes in at 0 TDS, so I don't think silicates are coming in that way. I haven't seen diatoms since the initial cycle. If I had to guess I say I have autotrophes since light has a direct affect on where this stuff grows. I don't have a silicate test, maybe I should get one.

So if you say no to heavy artillery at this time... what do you think should be the next step?

 

[Bearjohnson]

OK so these are just my own $.02.

First off....you tank is the perfect age for diatoms. We all hate them but whether we like it or not, they are coming into our tanks at one point or another.

Second off...lol turning the lights off rarely if at all is of any help. In most cases you could turn off the lights for an extended period of time and when you turn them back on, the diatoms will still be there.

3rd off... if you nuke the tank with algae x and it actually works, there is a spectacular chance the diatoms will come right back. The main reason for that happening is simply the fact that their food source will still be present in the tank.

Fourth off...Phosphates as high as .04 is not terrible. In fact 0-.03 is a pretty optimal range to shoot for.
Keep your GFO fresh and possibly boost your skimmer if you can almost to the point of a wet skim and you'll get through this with ease.

As long as you keep your water quality and parameters in check, the diatoms will eventually exhaust themselves and go away. You can boost water circulation to make it harder for them to totally take over every inch of the tank and really make it look UN-attractive. Unfortunately they are a super organism that is found all over the earth and can thrive in some of the ugliest conditions.

We've all been there so hang in there and it will pass

 

[Mischko]

I'd check the silicate level there first and see if that is ok. What I think is a good indication is you saying the dinos get more after some time the GFO has worn out.

 

[Fishdad1]

OK so these are just my own $.02.

First off....you tank is the perfect age for diatoms. We all hate them but whether we like it or not, they are coming into our tanks at one point or another.

Second off...lol turning the lights off rarely if at all is of any help. In most cases you could turn off the lights for an extended period of time and when you turn them back on, the diatoms will still be there.

3rd off... if you nuke the tank with algae x and it actually works, there is a spectacular chance the diatoms will come right back. The main reason for that happening is simply the fact that their food source will still be present in the tank.

Fourth off...Phosphates as high as .04 is not terrible. In fact 0-.03 is a pretty optimal range to shoot for.
Keep your GFO fresh and possibly boost your skimmer if you can almost to the point of a wet skim and you'll get through this with ease.

As long as you keep your water quality and parameters in check, the diatoms will eventually exhaust themselves and go away. You can boost water circulation to make it harder for them to totally take over every inch of the tank and really make it look UN-attractive. Unfortunately they are a super organism that is found all over the earth and can thrive in some of the ugliest conditions.

We've all been there so hang in there and it will pass

I know its not diatoms. I went through a diatom phase after my cycle. These are snotty vertical buggers that trap air and grow back within minutes of removal. Based on everything I've read they don't go away on their own. Usually drastic swings in PH in combination with blocking ambient lighting is the only way to eradicate these things.

So Mischko, lets say it was silicate consuming dinos... what would be your recommended course of action?

 

[Bearjohnson]

Is it a red cyanobacteria?

Traps air under it and floats somewhat off of the substrate?

 

[DaveK]

... I will try Ultra Algae X. ...

While I can sympathise with you about unsightly and unwanted algae, I do not recommend ever using such products. Generally I consider using them to be a major mistake. While they will kill off some types of unwanted algae, unless you correct the actual underlying problems, you will simply replace one nuisance algae with another one.

Use good tank management, control nitrates and phosphates, and don't over feed. Also use a good clean up crew. This will do far more to keep your system free of nuisance algae.

 

[Fishdad1]

No its brown. A few minutes after basting/syphoning completely gone it will return like this...


Then after a few hours it will look like this...


Those aren't my photos but that is exactly what it looks like in its different phases.

 

[Fishdad1]

While I can sympathise with you about unsightly and unwanted algae, I do not recommend ever using such products. Generally I consider using them to be a major mistake. While they will kill off some types of unwanted algae, unless you correct the actual underlying problems, you will simply replace one nuisance algae with another one.

Use good tank management, control nitrates and phosphates, and don't over feed. Also use a good clean up crew. This will do far more to keep your system free of nuisance algae.

I agree. But there are two problems with regards to dinos, they are toxic to CUCs and I have not been able to find a shred of evidence that defines the underlying tank issues that contribute to them. Its seems to be a mystery, even in the wild. In fact some MBs theorize that they thrive in reef-perfect water params.

I feed very little. My trates and phates are right where they should be. I have a good size CUC that is beginning to dwindle and now it appears my coral are suffering.

 

[DaveK]

After looking at your picture, it looks like a cyano outbreak. My advice still applies. Most likely you have sources of nitrated and/or phosphates that your not dealing with. Primary culprits are overfeeding the tank, especially with dry foods or not rinsing frozen food, and hig nitrated or phosphates in your water used to mix salt. What is your water source? Overstocking the tank can also be a problem. You also may not be doing enough in the way of partial water changes.

Do not think that because you get low reading for these parameters that you have no issue with them. What usually goes on is that your feeding the algae, and that's keeping the water parameters so low.

 

[Fishdad1]

Those pictures are your classic dinos. All the behavior is classic dino as well. Dry food is new life spectrum and I know I'm not overfeeding, I'm very particular about that. It can't be nitrates or phosphates because I run pellets and GFO and I monitored trate and phate levels dropping in correlation to those systems. Frozen brine shrimp does get rinsed and I only have 5 small fish in a 125g. My water change schedule is 15 gallons 2x/week and I also change out my filter socks and rinse all my sponges at these time as well. Also, a LFS that I had bought coral from is in the midst of a huge dino outbreak - they ID'd it under microscope and it looks identical to those images I posted. I don't mean to sound defensive but I am quite confident in my husbandry methods and in my diagnosis. Dinos are also infamous for killing snails on contact.

 

[Fishdad1]

So I'm about to dose the tank. I should have posted the instructions for Mischko because they are in German! I found English translations and they recommended cleaning as many dinos as you can after lights out then dosing every two days for as long as needed but not longer than 21 days. Interestingly they also say that Algae X is totally ineffective against cyano and was designed specifically for dinoflagellates but will take out hair and valonia as well, but those aren't issues in my tank.

I'll post the results as I go... I'm encouraged about tomorrow morning since many reviewers said they saw results after just one dose.

 

[Fishdad1]

Morning after first dose and the growth of the dinos has definitely been hindered. There is a very small thin layer growing in the usual spots on the substrate and now new growth on the rock work. My gorgonian and tree coral, which seem to attract dino growth look clean. As far as I can tell all coral and live stock look normal.

Some people recommended reducing lights during treatment to aid the Algea X but I am going to leave them at normal settings so I can be certain that it is making an impact on its own. Very pleased so far.

 

[Mischko]

Keep us posted here about the results. Specially how your corals and other inhabitants do with the dosing. I be honest, I'd had gone first for the silicate level and checked there, but I am not too fond of using such chemicals.

 

[Fishdad1]

So far so good. Dino growth is about 10% of what it was. I haven't turkey basted all day either. Usually if I let it go that long the dinos cover everything. Corals seem normal. Fish and inverts seem normal. Even the one acro that I have has its polyps out. Water is clear too.

I'll dose again tomorrow night.

 

[Fishdad1]

Morning inspection... dinos are growing at the same rate as yesterday. Very slow, very minimal. Algae X seems to still be keeping them at bay after 1 dose. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if the second dose eliminates them completely. All live stock normal, no indications of stress. Fish are eating and polyps are extended.

2nd dose tonight.

 

[ziggy]

good luck to you