Starting over after a complete tank crash.....

[Steve L]

Many of us have been there. You spend so much time tending to your aquariums and out of the blue BANG! they're all dead.

I've kept marine aquariums on and off for the last 30 years and times like this drive some to leave the hobby entirely, but I'm going to try and figure out my mistakes and move on. I get too much enjoyment from them to give up on it. Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes and I can hopefully get some feedback on what I did wrong.

This tank is a 150 FOWLR that has been set up for about a year. The list of the recent (and soon to be) dead is:
1 Blue Faced Angel
2 Clowns
2 Green Chromis
1 Hoven's Wrasse
1 Sailfin Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
1 Flame Wrasse
Assored hermits and snails for clean-up
1 Chocolate Chip Star
1 Sifting Star
1 Anenome
100 pounds live rock covered with coraline algae

Until about 2 months ago I was running a Fluval FX5 canister filter with the biggest HOB skimmer that Reef Octopus made. No sump and did 40% water changes once a month which kept all of the water parameters in line. Even with heavy feeding everything remained in check, although as with most FOWLR tanks the nitrates tend to be quite high, but it never seemed to have any adverse effects on the tank. About 3 months ago I noticed the nitrates spiked up to about 80 ppm and did my ususal water change but it just wouldn't stay down. I tried everything and finally decided that the canister filter was probably the cause, so I pulled it out and added another HOB skimmer and reduced the feeding. That did the trick and the trates stayed in the 20-40 range. Shortly after that I bought a yellow butterfly fish (long nose) and added him to my quarantine tank for 2 weeks, then moved him to the 150 display tank. Within a couple days he was showing signs of stress. Then he had a mild ich outbreak and died a few days later. All of the other fish remained ich free and showed no stress. Then about 2 weeks ago my angel started having what I can only describe as seizures. He was hiding more than usual, and would start shaking and twitching, then darting across the tank. This went on for a couple weeks with no change, and he was eating as much as always.

Fast forward to a couple days ago. My sailfin tang had a damaged eye. It looked like he either scraped it on a rock or was fighting with my yellow tank and scratched the lense. Not wanting to lose him I did something really stupid and dosed the tank with Melafix. I did my research and saw that many had used it with no adverse effects on fish or inverts, so I thought it was safe. I used a little less than the instructions called for. The stuff smells like paint thinner, and I remember thinking "I hope this isn't a mistake". Within 30 minutes my fish were freaking out, gasping for air and all were hiding. The instructions said to turn off skimmers and remove any carbon, which I figured was simply to stop any of the meds from being removed from the water. WRONG! The Melafix has a foaming agent in it which immediately overflows any skimmer, which of course is my only non-bio filtration. I decided to give it the night without filtration and see how things looked the next morning.

I awake to find my angel dead. He had a pre-existing condition so I figured the stress from the meds just pushed him over the top and killed him. I removed him from the tank and turned on the lights. All of the other fish had a powdery look to them, and the water was very cloudy. The slime layer on my 2 clowns was sluffing off and the others looked like they were on their way. I pulled the clowns out and quickly set up a 10 gallon hospital tank with copper just in case something else was happening. One died and the other one is still hanging on. The rest of the fish were quickly going down hill and I figured my best alternative was to get this crap out of my water. I tried turning on the skimmers but both immediately over flowed so that was out of the question. I got out my canister filter and loaded it up with carbon, and did a 50% water change. By the next morning 3 more fish were dead and I still couldn't turn on the skimmers. Not wanting to shock the fish any more, I did another 30% water change. The skimmers are just starting to work, but now everything in the tank is dead except for the yellow and sailfin tangs.

At this point I'm just trying to figure out what the heck happened so I don't do it again. I'm not sure if the Melafix was the cause of the die-off, or stressed them out to the point of death. What I can't understand is why the Melafix did this. In my research I found that most of the success stories were reefers trying to cure a fish without harming their inverts. My only theory is that the Melafix reacts badly with high nitrates and makes a toxic combination for fish since reef tanks usually have little or no trates.

In any case, I now have to decide if I want to scrub everything and start from scratch, or keep the rock and sand base and let the tank sit empty for a few weeks with new water. Either way, it's a hell of a way to start a holiday weekend.

Thanks for any input.

 

[PSU4ME]

Glad to have you on board! Start a chronicle so we can follow along!

 

[ddelozier]

its not smart to treat in the DT...Hospital tank is much preferred. Allowes for more controled contions, smaller volume to concentrate the meds, and can be drained dry between uses so meds dont get mixed.

NEVER EVER use any kind of Antibiotics in the DT...even if it says reef safe. It may cure the fish, but it will also sterilize the rocks, throwing your filtration system totally outa whack.

 

[ReefApprentice]

Well that sucks. Also always try to treat or give fish medicine in a QT or hospital tank because adding chemicals or treatment can have disterous results in the DT. Happy to have you on the forum.

 

[Gabi]

Hi Steve

I understand you very well because I have the same experiance after more than 4 years in this spring, just two months ago I lost one big queen angel; one blue face angel; yellow tang; pigmy angel and blue ribbon eel and wasn't enaugh, just one week ago one of my beatiful moray eel die too. We no need to give up and we need to learn from our mistake and share those experiences with others. In my case, first in spring when those angels died, first mistake was because I don't keep the heater enaugh to keep the water warm, when the water is below 75 FH, the diseases like ich start to come up, when I notice I try to put some medicine but was to late, I can't save them. The single medicine and is 100% natural and don't affect anything is KORDON ich attach and I don't believe in anything else, but this you have to start right the way when you notice and to increase the water temperature to 78-80 fh. My mistake was; I notice to late and I don't increase the temperature. After all those angels died I do water change and I increase the temperature and everything for a while looks ok. Last week I notice my beatiful moray eel start come out all from the rocks and don't eat. I can't notice anything on her body and I was thinking will be ok, on Sanday morning she was so weak, I pet her I pray but in less than 2 hours was gone. I can't believed and I just cry. Later when I touch the canister I notice stop working and was hot!!!. I disconect from plug and I find out the motor stop working and smell. The brand of that canister was API Filstar XP made in china. I return that crap to petsmart and I change with the Fluval made in Italy and still thanks to GOD I realize this before rest of my moray eels can die. I change again the water and everything look normal right know. I just want to tell you, if you have good filtration and don't have to much waste you need to change water just one time per month and no more than 10% because you disturb the beneficial bacteria, and any time when you change that 10% add on aquarium one tablespoon per 10 gallons of StressZyme+ nothing else. Beside the filtration and live rocks is better to have some snails and ghost shrimps. How people have pets dogs and cats, I have those moray eels, it is my passion. The blue face and queen angels I rise them from babies and when I come from work they just can't wait for me to give them a dinner and come and eat from my hand. I think those fish and aquarium creatures they need more people like you and me and we can't give up. Just two days ago I went with my wife in one of the aquarium and fish stores here in Houston and guess what?, I saw a beautiful skeletor eel what are verry verry rare and they keep him with 3 sharks and some puffers and he was so scared and stay inside of one big rock. I negociated with the owner and I take the eel home. My wife say is a gift for father day. In few days I will upload some pictures with him. Just please don't give up.

 

[jcgardner]

I am going through the same thing right now only mine is a 55 gallon tank. It sucks more for the loss of life than the money. As mentioned start a chronicle and we can all follow along. Happy reefing.

 

[Steve L]

Well it's been nearly a week since my disaster first began and I'm down to the yellow tang, watchman goby and a little wrasse all still alive in my 10 gallon hospital tank. They absolutely hate being in such a confined space but the copper seems to be gradually getting rid of the ich and whatever other parasites they have. I guess they'll have to stay in there for up to 28 days to make sure all of the parasites are dead in the display tank. From what I've read the normal life cycle of marine ich is 2 weeks but they've been known to go as long as a month.

I've re-arranged all of my live rock and over the last week done a 90% water change. The biggest problem at the moment is that the Melafix is still in the water even after most of it has been changed, and it's causing my skimmer to overflow with the collection cup set to its highest setting. I'm running my Fluval FX5 with charcoal inserts hoping it will help get rid of that crap. I wish there was something I could add which would neutralize the foaming effect of the Melafix, but for now I'll just wait to see if it works itself out through filtration.

While I'm waiting for my big tank to work out its problems I'm putting together a 70 gallon tall tank (31 inches) and "trying" to drill live rock to make a tall reef which is going horribly. I'll probably just end up using adhesive but I was hoping to drill the big rocks and run PVC through them. I just can't find a bit that will do the job. They either won't cut the coral or end up tearing it to pieces. It's all a big learning experience.

 

[ddelozier]

28 days is incorrect. recommended DT ich cleanse period is 8-10 weeks. 28 days is correct for fresh water, but for marine ich, a bit longer is req. its a bit more resilient. Id recommend setting up a 29g starter kit to keep the fish with more space during that time. off the shelf kits make great QT and holding tanks.

 

[Steve L]

Thanks for the correction I see that you are right about 8-10 weeks. Looks like I'll be re-stocking with the most ich resistent fish I can possibly find and hope for the best. I'm now seeing why reefing has become so popular. I may have to re-evalulate my future plans and look more into inverts, although I know they have their own set of problems.

 

[theplantman]

You may want to consider pulling everything out of the DT, put in a new sand bed and do a thorough RO wash on the live rock. My guess is the meds are permeated in the LR and sand bed. Hopefully you won't have to replace the live rock too. Sorry about all the losses.

 

[sheavens]

So sorry to hear about your loss.
I'm no expert on this, but I have a feeling that theplantman may be giving good advice here. I don't think it could do any harm to do what he suggests.

 

[ddelozier]

You may want to consider pulling everything out of the DT, put in a new sand bed and do a thorough RO wash on the live rock. My guess is the meds are permeated in the LR and sand bed. Hopefully you won't have to replace the live rock too. Sorry about all the losses.

This is also true. For fowlr tanks without corals, a complete strip down, wash and recycling of the tank can be done in less time than waiting out the Ich's life cycle. Sand can be washed well and left to soak for a week in FW, live rock can be powerwashed and left to soak in buckets of FW, and or allowed to dry completely for a few days. All that can be done in 4-5 days. Cycling takes 30ish days, so total 35 days as apposed to 56-60.

 

[Steve L]

I hadn't really considered that but it makes sense. Would that mean trashing the entire cleaner crew? Tons of snails, fighting conchs, hermits, two starfish and a really nice pink tipped anemone. I suppose I could set up a separate QT tank for them.

 

[sheavens]

It would mean a complete recycling of the tank, you could set up a QT for the inverts if you don't already have one, but the good thing about inverts is that they have a very low bio-load so you could maybe get away with water changes rather than cycling the QT first. (I'll probably be corrected on this )

 

[theplantman]

I am kind of surprised that the inverts did not take a beating in the same manner the fish did. Usually inverts are the first to show signs of stress or death due to water quality issues, especially starfish and anemones. Even snails are listed as intolerant of drastic swings in water quality. Seems odd to me. This may or may not be something to think about but it may not have been the meds that wiped everything out but possibly shutting down the filtration without compensating for the lost Oxygen production to the water and some meds can reduce O2 levels on top of it. Your tank sounded like it was stocked well. Could be oxygen depravation that took everything out and the inverts are less sensitive to that since they use less.

I also like the previous comment, antibiotic toasted the bio-filter in the live rock and caused a massive ammonia spike, but this should have killed every invert in the tank.

 

[Steve L]

Frankly I'm still not sure what the heck killed everything and left the inverts alone. I've been doing daily water tests and the amonia never went above zero, and naturally with all the water changes my nitrate has dropped to almost nothing. Since the amonia has never gone up I believe my bio filter is still mostly in-tact. With the exception of a light film on the surface the water is crystal clear and the remaining critter seem very happy. My chocolate chip star even climbed to the top of the tank begging for a hand-out of squid like he usually does when he gets hungry. There really were no signs of ich until "after" I put the meds in the tank so the stress from low oxygen may have stressed some of the fish out and brought on the ich which until that point they were able to fight off. Two of the three remaining fish in the hospital tank show clear signs of ich but it's gradually getting better. The yellow watchman goby has never shown any signs of ich or illness of any kind. My Hovens wrasse was the first one to show problems and he was the healthiest fish in the tank before this happened. The second the Melafix hit the water he freaked out and hid under a rock. I can't say I blame him for hiding, that stuff smelled like paint thinner. His breathing rate increased and within 12 hours he died. I did notice my sifting starfish made a rare appearance during the day on the surface of the sand as did one of my conch, so oxygen deprivation was my first thought as well. As far as I can tell I haven't lost a single hermit or snail and my water parameters are as good or better right now as they've ever been. I just can't get that damn foaming to stop on my skimmer. A solid column of big wet bubble blows the lid off of the collection cup in a matter of seconds, and that's after I completely took apart the skimmer and cleaned it all including the impeller.

The thought of starting from scratch is really unappealing since cycling a tank is only the first step to getting a tank well established and this one has a year under its belt and was doing great until I added the meds like an idiot. But I also realize that I may have no choice if the meds don't break down very soon. The cannister filter can only do so much and without a running skimmer that gunk may never leave.

 

[ddelozier]

Another option is to do one massive water change. Take out as many inverts as you can find. Have enough SW mixed to replace all the water in the tank, and drain the tank to the sand. That will get rid of most of the meds, the Carbon in the Canistar working with the skimmer will do the rest. The reason your skimmer goes nuts is because that medication is oil based. it may be another good idea to mod your skimmer cup to drain through a hose to a larger container. Most new skimmers have this option, but a drill bit, some air line and a bit of silicone can be used to mod it. Let the skimmer strip that junk out or change the water out.

 

[Steve L]

I'm using the biggest Reef Octopus HOB skimmer they make (LS2000s) and it does have an overflow port on the collection cup, but the volume and speed that the foam column moves is just too much for the little overflow to handle. It's run flawlessly since I bought it, but when I do regular maintenance water changes I do get quite a bit of foaming and bubbles in the return water from the skimmer, so I can't help but think that there is more at work here than just the meds. Newly mixed water changes always create a bit more of a head on the skimmer and right now my tank is practically all new water.

I'll probably scrounge up a couple more mixing containers and try to do a 100% water change. Before I do that I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing another reason why the skimmer would overflow like a blockage of some kind. I would be kicking myself if I changed all of the water then found out it wasn't necessary.

 

[Steve L]

I finally have to foaming problem under control. I decided to do one more water change and simple wait for a couple more days before trying the skimmer again. The skimmer basically had to break in again, but it's finally working perfectly.

I pulled my survivors out of my hospital tank and then into my 30 gallon quarantine, but it was a bit over crowded so I moved some of the more aggressive fish back to the main display tank and hoped for the best. So far everybody is happy and healthy with no signs of ich or stress. I realize I didn't wait long enough to cycle out the ich but I have a strong feeling that the initial dosing of the display tank caused the stress in the first place and allowed the ich to happen. Every little new creature we put in our tanks is probably carrying any number of potentially deadly parasites and for now my best defense will be to keep the water parameters as close to perfect as possible and make sure they're all healthy enough to fight off any threats.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Good luck - post us some pics !