Solaris Owners!

[fatman]

Al

Sure, just look for us. I'll be with Sajnay and Tony.

Fatman

What you have said, for the most part of that statment, is incorrect. Pat spent allot in research and development. And allot of it was and is done in-house.

Well it is not like my opinions have never differed from other peoples before. :smack: I have no doubt they will continue to improve the system, as they seem dedicated to improvement as is obvious, as they have steady improved it since its first introduction I believe. Once again though that is just an opinion. I just notice there are new models what, G, H, and now I, so I guess the R & D goes on.
I have no heat issues living in Alaska, so eventually, unless something else comes along such as smaller sulfur (sulphur) tubes (lamps), the LEDs fixtures produced will improve and also drop in price enough to consider, as of now they are not economical enough to replace my halides.

 

[lcstorc]

There is still the electrical advantage as well as bulb replacement but I will admit my primary reason for spending this amount of money is for cooling of the tank. Even with 8 fans and an open top with AC at 76 my tank stays at 83 or 84 and my electric bill is over $400 with t5s on the other tanks.
I do think PFO has done a lot of R&D to come up with this light. I am in an unusual position and have access to engineers in pretty much any aspect as the Space Center. I have spoken with their top lighting experts and just based on what I know and what they have read on the PFO site they say it would be very expensive to build something similar. In fact to build a custom one for me they estimated at least double the cost of the Solaris. Now if I were willing to give up some of the bells and whistles I am sure that would reduce the price significantly since that is clearly where a lot of the money is spent.
Anyway, like I have said previously I believe it is a great answer for me but certainly not the answer for all.

 

[cheeks69]

Cheeks: I think everything I have stated about the Solaris has been based on fact. You CAN dim intensity, You CAN create your own K, and all of my corals are doing fabulous under the light. They DO create less heat, They ARE less expensive to run. These are all facts upon which I acclaim the Solaris' superiority.

Robert my comment was a general statement and certainly not directed at you. My point is that in just about every MH, T5 and now LED threads in just about every reefing forum comparisons are made and heated discussions occur because people make claims without any real facts.

The fact is MH's revolutionized the hobby and allowed us to keep corals that at one time were very difficult to impossible to keep. There have been more tests done on Halides than any other lighting system available in the hobby and we all know what they can do. Also because of tests done among hobbiests we know now that T5's can also perform extremely well and compete with MH's. Now LED's are the craze and in time with more testing and testimony from hobbiests we will know what is possible with this lighting system. Hope I have clarified and just my 2 pennies.

 

[BigAl07]

I do think PFO has done a lot of R&D to come up with this light. I am in an unusual position and have access to engineers in pretty much any aspect as the Space Center. I have spoken with their top lighting experts and just based on what I know and what they have read on the PFO site they say it would be very expensive to build something similar. In fact to build a custom one for me they estimated at least double the cost of the Solaris.

Yes they have done a TON of R&D or this product wouldn't be what it is today. It's not simply a bunch of LEDS tossed into a simple fixture. It's a fairly complicated and well designed "unit" that has so much potential for greatness.

Some may or may not know but we have a fellow RS member (haven't seen him post lately) who took on the task of making a "Simple" LED fixture for himself. He has access to most of the components through his work except the LEDs. Even though he's doing this on a PRIVATE level just his investment in a SIMPLE unit is going to be at least HALF of what the Solaris costs. Let's get real... this isn't some cheap little Do It Yourself light fixture... yes it's expensive but the company has a LOT of $$ invested in getting it to where it is today and they are STILL improving it. That means a LOT!

Who knows... maybe one day "all-In-Ones" will come with LEDS built into them... that would be SWEET!!

Now if I were willing to give up some of the bells and whistles I am sure that would reduce the price significantly since that is clearly where a lot of the money is spent.

Yes a good portion probably did go into the "Bells & Whistles"... but even a simple housing takes a lot of time to design, test, modify and get into production. I was involved in a simple "Chain Saw Housing" design a few years back... it was silly what it took to get it into production even though it was designed, built, and TESTED 100% on a CAD system. Going from drawings to an actual WORKING unit costs $$ and time (and creates a LOT of scrap material).

Something I think that a LOT of us have grown to expect is "Cheap Knock-Offs" of quality products. It's well know that some less than upstanding countries actually THRIVE on "Copying" products. They take something that's already gotten the R&D done to it... already accepted in the market place and "Reverse Engineer It". Talk about saving $$$... their R&D is taking one unit apart, copying it and then farming it out to be mass manufactured... heck some companies have even been known to use the SAME vendors as the original companies to make their "Copies". That's where the cost reductions REALLY occur. It will happen..... in time the countries that don't have (or enforce) copy rights will be pushing knock-offs and we hungry reefers will gobble them up like they invented the next best mouse trap.

 

[Frankie]

I just saw the modular setup on another forum for LED's. Pretty cool. If I was to use this lighting that would be the way to do it. I like the rail system idea and ease of replacement if needed.

 

[fatman]

Lets see, ninety five percent of the tanks I would put the LED lighting on I do not have tp pay the electricity for running, nor do I pay the cost of running the chillers for a few hours a day a few weeks per year. The bulb payback being the only real saving for me makes the pay back a slow way to recoup the extra expense of replacing already functioning halides and chillers. As for my own display tanks they business expenses and are therefore tax deductible so the money is not really so much the problem. It is still why should I buy them considering the high costs when so far I do not believe they will provide me with any better results then my existing lighting, and how would I explain to customers that I use lighting different from what I supply them. Considering shipping and interest on a sizable loan and such, I would have to charge an extra $85 per month to them for 5 years for an upgrade to LED lighting. I do not think that would go over to well.

 

[rmlevasseur]

If electric cost and heating concerns don't affect you fatman, then I think we all agree you have no incentive to buy them. Still, there are some pretty cool cosmetic features that may or may not interest you. Auto dimming, cloud cover, adjustable day lengths, adjustable K...

 

[BigAl07]

Lets see, ninety five percent of the tanks I would put the LED lighting on I do not have tp pay the electricity for running, nor do I pay the cost of running the chillers for a few hours a day a few weeks per year. The bulb payback being the only real saving for me makes the pay back a slow way to recoup the extra expense of replacing already functioning halides and chillers. As for my own display tanks they business expenses and are therefore tax deductible so the money is not really so much the problem. It is still why should I buy them considering the high costs when so far I do not believe they will provide me with any better results then my existing lighting, and how would I explain to customers that I use lighting different from what I supply them. Considering shipping and interest on a sizable loan and such, I would have to charge an extra $85 per month to them for 5 years for an upgrade to LED lighting. I do not think that would go over to well.

Then I'd say it's not "Right for you" Fatman! The irony is I have a LFS here who is similar to you.. not NEARLY as informed or up to date as you but similar in many ways... he refuses to carry anything "Modern" regardless of how good it is. He says, "If it's not broke why fix it!" I've asked him to bring certain "New" things in to try but he wont. Now I buy "Emergency" items there and drive right passed his shop and go 30 miles extra just because "If he wont support me I wont support him!" A true LFS should offer MORE than just what he carries but that's a whole OTHER argument!

Honestly I don't think Solaris is right for you.... not now and probably not ever... well not until the "Green Movement" forces us ALL to choose an alternative lighting method....

 

[lcstorc]

That green mention is what I was just about to say.
Even if you don't pay for the electricity there is still an enviromental cost.
Not giving you grief fatman, They are obviously not for you at least not now. Maybe someday. Who knows.

 

[Techno-Vicki]

This thread has tanken an interesting turn. Personally, having used PC's, HQI MH, T5's, and LED's, it is hands down LED's. But, they are not for everyone. To the comment it is not 'natural', I have to laugh; shaving is not true to nature, but I shave (don't like hairy arm pits). Our yards are not 'natural', but rather we artistically design them for mood, color, line, ... (you get the point); yes, LED's do make colors pop and that is one of the things I love about it, it is more amazing to 'see' the colors our eyes can not 'see' in a truely natural spectrum. LED's help us see more than we could.

Growth, it is (to my understanding) true that corals grow better under 6,500 rather than 20,000. I remember reading way back that at GARF, they grew out their SPS corals under 6,500 and then put them under 14,000 or 20,000 to bring out the color. If you are a grower of SPS, you would not want LED's, I don't think the intent of the design was for growers. Growers should consider what Calfo and Fenner did, green houses. Eventually, that is my ultimate goal, natural light for growing corals. Oh well, I guess I need to win the lottery (hummmm, I guess I have to buy a ticket first lol ).

I have been able to reduce my costs by over 1,000 a year using my LED's. I don't buy replacement bulbs, I don't run a chiller (and I don't have airconditioning - only on the hottest days 105 +), and I use less electricity in the fixture. It is pure savings for me. I firure I will have paid for the fixture in about 2 more years.

Now, lets get to the bottom of this thread, why is there such a debate? It is not for everyone, but for many, it is the best they could hope for. I love mine and I will not debate it further. It becomes an argument, and I believe that for anyone to make a personal decision, they need to see all the pros and cons before making a personal decision. Continued argument is more of trying to brainwash rather than letting people make individual decisions.

I love mine and I will never go back.

 

[AQTCJAK]

Vicki is correct in all of her statements between the 2 of us we now own 5 of them so I think you can see what we think. As a LFS owner I promote LEDs as well as T5's My thought is this if you can afford them you will be happy if you cant afford them save for them dont rely on intenet pricing If you are interested in a price let me know I can beat any price out there.

 

[fatman]

If I was starting all over and just now setting up the tanks, the decision would probably be different. It would be much easier to justify the purchases if I did not already own good/adequate lighting systems. I would have no problem with making LED's a part of the systems I lease, but it would have to be at an additional price. I would not even find it wrong to make the offer/suggestion to my customers, and even include an environmental pitch as a reason for suggesting them. I in all honesty could not tell them they provide better lighting, but I would say they are a lighting option that offers many benefits over the halide PC arrangement they are getting on the tank present setups and then explain the viewing options/differences. My main shop tanks would remain lower K halides and I would likely change over my own display tanks, if a fair percentage of my customers opt for LED's. Then I would have to just deal with some used Aqualight Pros, and a varied assortment of used chillers. The price is still too high and improvements in LED's would not hurt. But as it is not my money or choice to make whether to spend it or not I really have no reason to complain. Maybe they will some day improve to better fit my needs as a grower and then I can worry about whether the cost is justifiable then to switch over my grow/frag/feeding tanks.

 

[xlayedoutx]

To get this thread back on topic its been 4 days now at 30% white 100% blue and everything still looks great. The colors pop so much more. So much in fact its hard to tell if my Blue milli is more blue now or if it just looks that way from the lights.

 

[fatman]

Then I'd say it's not "Right for you" Fatman! The irony is I have a LFS here who is similar to you.. not NEARLY as informed or up to date as you but similar in many ways... he refuses to carry anything "Modern" regardless of how good it is. He says, "If it's not broke why fix it!" I've asked him to bring certain "New" things in to try but he wont. Now I buy "Emergency" items there and drive right passed his shop and go 30 miles extra just because "If he wont support me I wont support him!" A true LFS should offer MORE than just what he carries but that's a whole OTHER argument!

Honestly I don't think Solaris is right for you.... not now and probably not ever... well not until the "Green Movement" forces us ALL to choose an alternative lighting method....

It is obvious you do not know me. while it is true I do not rent a U-Haul to return a library book, I have no problem with the use of new, good technology that provides cost effective benefits that I want. I do not buy in to fads though, if that is what you mean. Nor do I buy good things that I do not need or want just because they are good or new.

 

[lcstorc]

New info just in. (Well I just found out anyway.)
PFO has brought the assembly in house. They are also adding more bells and whistles but I don't have any details yet. My order is in. Delivery sometime in Sept. or maybe early Oct.

 

[Techno-Vicki]

Congratulations Lynn! You will love it. I am still amazed at how it produces so much light that ALL the corals love, even low light corals like mushrooms - etc., and absolutely no heat. It was 103 today and the fan only came on a little while during the hotest point.

 

[CaReefGuy]

Well after a long wait I just got my 36" Series I4 yesterday.

Speaking of making changes... just check the version of the firmware in your light. Mine is Ver 03.43.22, it is a refurbished/remanufactured light so I got a good deal on it. Talked with PFO today and there are quite a few changes in this version and there are more changes coming.

I worked from home today just so I could watch it do it's thing and I am very impressed with it. I am glad I waited didn't spend the money on MH. I am getting great shimmer effects from the lights and I am just at 50%.

My LFS loaned me a light and can already feel a difference with the heat in my apartment and the amount of time my a/c runs.

I am impressed and time will tell if my corals are impressed also.

Paul

 

[rmlevasseur]

Congrats Paul! Solaris send me the 3.43.22 board too, but it appears that all the revisions are technical and not cosmetic. I can see no difference in the feature set that the new board offers. I think it just gets the juice to the LEDs right.

 

[Fish Crazy]

OK so last week we turned down the whites to 30% and I adjusted them to 35% the other day and after a week everything is looking great and all the colors are popping big time.

 

[CaReefGuy]

One thing that I discovered with the 3.43.22 board is, if you increase the cloud cover to happen 9 times a day, the light will get stuck in a transition state between Sunset and Moon Rise, i.e. all lights will be off and they won't cycle until you do something to change the auto setting, i.e. reduce the cloud covers. I know you can increase cloud cover to 7 times with no problems but don't know if the problem will happen at 8. I will be trying that tomorrow.

PFO is now aware of the problem. They have been extremely helpful in answering any questions I have. I am still happy with my choice and my tank seems to be too, so far.

Paul