Sick Hippo Tang

[Jetbkk]

Thank you Lee. I really appreciate you weighing in on this. I've been reading bad things about Leopard Wrasses and Copper so I feel a lot better going with the hypo treatment in the QT for my infected but not yet showing sick fish. I'll set up the tank today and report back.

Cupramine and some other copper medications are available here, as are the test kits. The many LFS shops here are very familiar with copper dosing. So the Tang is under going that treatment right now, but as I said earlier it is not looking good at all.

I'm determined to keep learning and get this right. Thanks to all the excellent advice here.

 

[sk8rdn]

I'm finally setting up a proper QT/Hospital tank today. I will put the 9 fish that are currently in my display tank in there. I'm really not sure if I should treat with Hypo or Copper. The fish look perfectly normal right now so they don't have active infection although they may be carrying. I don't know if it is Ich or Velvet so not sure the best treatment. I really don't want to end up killing them in the QT, that's for sure, especially my 2 Leopard Wrasses.

The Hippo Tang, fyi, is in an hospital tank at my friend's LFS under going copper treatment and looking worse than before. He might not make it.

I'd go with the hypo. It's less stressful, and if they really don't have it, its not as harsh as the copper...

Obviously the tang would need the copper as he was showing, but the rest we are unsure of, so hypo.

....Moving On, Moving On....

 

[Jetbkk]

All 9 fish are now in a new QT tank. I had to remove all my corals and rocks to get them out and man those Wrasses are hard to find under the sand.. but in the end everything got moved. They are all looking fine in the QT although they were clearly stressed by the glass bottom so I put some sand in for the Wrasses to hide in which immediately helped. I wouldn't have done that if I was dosing copper, but since I'm doing hypo I thought that would be ok. I will let the fish settle down in the for a day or two and then start lowering the salinity and being the hypo treatment. I hope they will all be ok with that..

 

[Jetbkk]

The Hippo Tang died 2 days ago. That is no surprise as he was in a bad way.

I've kept the other 9 fish in a QT tank for 2 days and now I'm starting to lower the salinity. I'm at 1.020 now and will bring it down slowly over the next 1-2 days to reach 1.008-1.009. I hope they all cope with it.

None of the fish are showing any sings of Ich whatsoever. They are very active and I'm happy to report that both of my Leopards are eating pellet food which I great news.

There is one issue I need some opinions on: My tank is running warm (this is Bangkok and it is really hot every day). Temps are around 82.5F right now. Is that going to be ok?

I have a feeling to really do this properly long term I might need to invest in a chiller for $250 (especially considering future expensive fish purchases). Any thoughts?

 

[sk8rdn]

I thought you had a chiller on this system already?

Good news on the leopards...

Sorry about the tang, bro...

....Moving On, Moving On....

 

[Jetbkk]

I have a titanium chiller for my DT. But for the QT i don't have one. If run the A/C all day the temp goes down to 78 but that can't be maintained 24/7 so I worry about variation in temps being bad and also worry if I don't use the A/C it will be too hot.

I'm pretty bummed about the Hippo as it was one of my first fish and tripled in size in the 2 years I had it. Oh well, once I get everything sorted out I will try a Purple Tang and maybe a Chevron. But it will be a few months I guess..

 

[engineer goby]

You should be ok if the temp isn't going above that. It's not like you really have a choice in the matter anyways, your doing the best you can and it's unrealistic to think you would buy a chiller for a qt tank. Keep up the good work and good luck with everything. Oh and sorry about the Hippo they are one of my favorite fish and I just lost mine about a month ago.

 

[MLKsreef]

Sorry to hear about your Hippo Tang. Whenever, I have dealt with ich, it seems as though it is always with my Hippo Tang. I generally increase the use of garlic with their food and reduced the salinity a little. I do keep the AC on and have a vent conveniently near my sump which helps maintain the temp at 78 or so. I also make sure I don't do or add anything to stress the fish out. Have patience they generally will fight it off.

 

[Jetbkk]

Over the last few days I've been lowering the salinity bit by bit. I have a feeling I'm going too slow but it seems like if I do too much I will stress the fish. Right now I'm at 0.015 and I will try to get it to 0.010 or 009 tomorrow if possible.

I have a question. As predicted, the PH has dropped due to the lower salinity. Right now it is 7.8. I"m cooking some baking soda now to make sodium carbonate. However I have no idea how much I should be using. The QT is a 25g tank. Any tips as to how much sodium carbonate I should be adding?

 

[whippetguy]

Bulk Reef Supply has a good dosing calculator on their site.

Reef Calculator - Bulk Reef Supply

 

[Jetbkk]

I don't see PH on that dosing calculator, only Calcium, Magnesium, GFO, Alkalinity, and Carbon.

 

[dmatt88]

I couldn't locate it either. U do plan on dripping slowly tho right dude? Keep the test kit close. There is a powder available I used a few years back that stabilized ph n wouldn't allow it to get above 8.3 but darned if I remember the name.

..........tequilla is not my friend anymore

 

[leebca]

Jetbkk,

I understand your concerns about lowering the salinity. That is why I wrote the post on how to do it a hyposalinity treatment. Please read it. You can lower the salinity quickly and it doesn't stress the fish -- in fact, the sooner you get it down, the less stress there will be on the fish. Just lower it to the proper reading over a couple (2 to 3) days. Do the reading and follow the instructions. The link I provided to How to Cure. . .includes other links to treatment instructions. Good luck!

 

[Jetbkk]

I took the salinity down to 0.009 this morning, so I suppose the tank is in hypo salinity now. I'll go down to 0.008 tonight and try to hold it steady for at least 4 weeks. All fish are looking normal, and are very active and eating. It is definitely overstocked with 9 small fish in a 25g, but with all the water changes I'm doing it should be fine. It is a bit crowded when they are all swimming, but at least 4 of the Wrasses are under the sand 70% of the time (I know you don't recommend using sand, but my 2 Leopard Wrasses, Red Coris, and Melanarus would be in a bad way without it).

Lee: I've read your stickies, and I've read them more than once at this point. I wouldn't even being doing this hypo without your excellent guidance there. You and others here have completely opened my eyes to the critical importance of QT and the treatment of Ich. I wouldn't be running my DT fallow or even have a QT without this advice. However, my PH question goes unanswered. I know the levels will drop because of the hypo. I know I can add sodium carbonate to correct it, and I've cooked up some baking soda already according to your instructions. What I do not know or have any idea of is how much sodium carbonate to add to the water. I know I could just experiment, but I'm not keen to do that. And maybe PH of 7.8 doesn't require immediate action, I've seen some people say don't touch that if it is stable. Any thoughts?

 

[leebca]

First, I want to be sure the actual sp. gr. number is 1.009, not 0.009 and you are moving it to 1.008.

Thank you for showing your appreciation.

I thought the hypo post mentioned ways to control pH. Make up a batch of carbonate water and drip it in. It's trial and error regarding drip rate and the concentration of the solution, but the goal is to drip it in to compensate for evaporation AND pH control. Check out the hypo post again. I will, too and make sure info is there.

P.S. I did modify the hypo treatment post: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...nts/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html to include additional drip pH control info.

The point is, if the pH is not drifting or changing much, then let it alone. It isn't always necessary to tinker with the pH. I just hope you ARE doing it at 1.008 (not 0.008)! As far as what is 'right' . . .The pH of 8.2 to 8.4 is right. The 7.8 is NOT right. Just be sure you are measuring it correctly. How are you measuring it? If you are using a pH meter, then be sure it is calibrated properly and recently. If you are using a pH test kit, then these are very subjective and not very reliable, and you should change over to a pH meter.

Now, if your question is not answered above, then I apologize. I don't frequent this forum so I may have missed some of the posts (I don't read them all because of lack of time). Just ask your question one more time and I'll address it directly below. Good luck!

 

[Jetbkk]

Thanks again, Lee. I really would have been lost without all the information you posted on your stickies.

Yes, you are correct the salinity is 1.009 not 0.009 For testing PH I'm currently using a Red Sea test kit. I can look at buying a PH meter today as I'll be in some shops and hopefully they will have one. The current PH is about 8.0 without adding any sodium carbonate yet, so it is still low but a little better than before.

All my fish look very good although my Flasher Wrasse was looking pretty strange last night. I thought I might lose him, but today he is fine and eating. No white spots have shown on any of these fish after 8 days in the QT with lower salinity.

 

[leebca]

Glad to hear it's 1.009. I don't know what options you have or what's available to you in Bangkok. I spent a month in Thailand, but that was in the 90's. In the US we have available to us what is called 'field' pH meters. They are hand-held devices used by researchers. Some are sophisticated and exceptionally good. They are not expensive for us here. It's just that you want a pH meter that is standardized using TWO calibration liquids -- that uses two points to calibrate it. Using a test kit, even a good one, your pH could in fact be okay.

 

[Jetbkk]

My Solon Wrasse just died today, quite suddenly. I'm doing water changes every day but the one thing I'm having trouble with is keeping the PH stable. Is it more likely the hypo killed it, PH that isn't stable, or something else?

This fish was looking perfectly fine until today.

 

[leebca]

The least likely is hypo. Hypo would be a far, far, distant chance. So far, that I have never heard of it confirmed as ever causing death.

That puts water quality at the top of the list. Why are you making frequent water changes? Is there some test result you're getting which makes you do this? What is it?

I don't know what kind of source water you have there, but I would also suspect that. Even though the source water might 'test' properly, the fact is there are hundreds of water poisons that are okay for humans, but not for fish, that we don't test for. Source water is a big opportunity for poisons to find their way into the system and, with such frequent water changes, would likely keep supplying more of those or that poison.

 

[Jetbkk]

I'm using RODI water in the QT/Hospital tank. I thought from what I read that I was supposed to do frequent water changes because of a heavily stocked tank (9, now 8 fish) and relatively poor filtration compared to the DT.

It has been hard for me to hold the PH steady so that is why I thought it might be a cause. I do monitor it everyday and try to raise it slowly with sodium carbonate.