RSM (Red Sea Max) Owners Club

[Arreola]

Reefmack - Yes, new fish, same species.
I really like the way the Sialfin keeps the algae under control, but I will need to either change the rock work to see if he loose teh teritory or change the fish, and I really like how the rock looks :tongue:

 

[Reefmack]

Arreola - which fish are you getting/replacing - a different goby? A different algae blenny?

 

[Arreola]

Reefmack - I was thinking on the blenny.
It has become a little too agresive.

I think my happiness on the Clownfish is not going to last long.

I do not know for sure if it has "ich"
Should I remove the fish from the tank?
here is a pic. :verymad:

 

[Reefmack]

Arreola - I'd post in the fish disease section on the clown. You'll get more help there. I'm not sure if that is ich or something like brookynella (sp?). You might want to hold off on any new fish till you find out more.

 

[Arreola]

Reefmack - I will post as soon as I find the section... LOL

 

[Reefmack]

Arreola - it's a subforum under Saltwater Fish;

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/

 

[doubleduece]

Here is some good insight from a local reefer in my area, how is very knowledgable in this area of disease, his name is PATRICK......

What is "Ich"? 2 Weeks, 3 Days ago
What is Ich? There have been a number of posts by new folks (or at least new to me) about it, so I thought I would throw this out there. Hope it helps answer alot of questions and gives some direction where to go if it apples to you.

Ich is short for Ichthyophthirius multifilis….a freshwater protozoan parasite. When we refer to “ich” in a marine environment, we do so because when people made the move to keeping marine aquariums from freshwater aquariums, they brought the term for the white spot disease with them. Actually, “ich”, or white spot disease in a marine system is either Cryptocaryon irritans (aka crypt) or Amyloodinium oceallatum (aka velvet)……with crypt being the most pervasive and most common seen. Both are protozoans and both have definitive lifecycles. Understanding these lifecycles is paramount in treatment and prevention. Velvet is not seen as often, because it has such a high and fast kill rate that most fish do not make it to the LFS, or at least on to the customer to be seen. Crypt will kill your fish too. It just does so in a slower, methodical and, to some, mysterious manner. The lifecycles of both parasites are very similar so I will just describe the lifecycle of crypt. Treatment for both is the same.

Crypt usually is introduced to your tank on a new fish. It can come in on coral or liverock from an infected system, but that is the minority case most of the time. But, for technicality here, anything wet can carry crypt into your tank if it came from an infected system. The parasite at this stage, attached to the fish, is called a theront. As a theront, the parasite grows from microscopic to the white spot you are able to see…..this is a temperature dependent process but usually occurs over a 3-5 day period in our tanks. Once the theront has grown to sufficient size and matured, it leaves the fish and falls to the substrate (usually in the dawn or dusk timeframe). At this stage it is a protomont. The protomont seeks out some calcareous spot to latch on by crawling around, but usually picks out a spot right near where it dropped off. In this manner, a fish will likely be very close by when the new parasites emerge. Once it latches on, it is in the tomont stage where it encysts, undergoes binary fission into 150-250 new parasites. Once ready (usually about a week or less) the cysts ruptures (usually in the dawn or dusk timeframe when fish are settled down and back in their borrows) and releases all the new parasites….known as tomites in this stage. Here they seek out a fish….and only a fish….to become theronts and start the whole thing over again. The tomite have about 18 hours to find a host fish….and only a fish….or they die. To reiterate, this is a temperature dependent process. There have been several studies done on this process….thanks to the mariculture industry….and after compiling all the results…which slightly differed….it is safe to say that the process has a range of 10-21 days in most cases. I always recommend elevating the tank temp to 80F and allowing a month for the lifecycle.

Treatments……well there are many put out there but only a few are really worth talking about. I have tried nearly all of them. I will only discuss the methods proven to work by a preponderance of evidence. I don’t count some guy’s brother’s cousin’s, friend’s roommate as evidence. That is what we correctly refer to as an anecdote…and most anecdotes rarely work against this formidable foe.

Best treatment…also called the “gold standard” for treating “ich” is ionic copper in a bare bottom tank with small sections of pvc pipes (for fish cover) for 14 days at 80 F. It is paramount that the copper be ionic and that it be at a therapeutic level (varies by brand, but I like 0.3 ppm for most) for a full 14 days. You will need to test to make sure you have not overdone or underdone it. This can be hard for some species….and yep, you guessed it, and the fish most susceptible to the parasite are also the fish most sensitive to the copper. That is why I like the dose I listed. Of course, it should go without saying that you cannot have any non-fish livestock in this treatment.

Hyposalinity…..I have used this with success, but you have to do it for at least 6 weeks, I feel. Every time I shortened it, it did not work and the fish reinfected in the following 2 week period. It is not as certain as copper, but is an alternative for those unfamiliar or averse to using copper. Again, 80 F and lower the salinity to 1.009. You will need a refractometer and again, no non-fish livestock. Also, puffers, eels and sharks/rays do not do particularly well with hyposalinity.

All the other treatments are of little value, but some get lucky and have fish that are healthy enough that the “reef-safe” treatment helped balanced the war in the fish’s side. Usually though, I just see a few spots here and there with no major outbreaks, but add a new fish and the whole balance goes back to the parasite and most or all of the fish in the tank die. Nutrition can help a fish fight off the parasite’s virulence, but at you can see from the lifecycle….only one parasite needs to make it thru to keep it all going. The systems that have crypt hanging out and “appear” to be gone, are really just ticking timebombs. A major parameter shift, like temp drop or pH swing and the infestations pick back up again. These are the folks that think temp or doing a big water change causes “ich”.

Most of the so-called “reef safe” meds are largely crap. Hate to be so blunt about it, but they just postpone the inevitable and, I think, are just cruel to the fish. People who report a “cure” with these things have really just beat the odds. I did try Paraguard in combination with hyposalinity and had great results, but I cannot say whether the hypo or the Paraguard did the trick or whether it was the combo. That powder blue tang is alive and well today in a totally crypt free system. Even when the temp in the tank dropped to 64 F last winter (power outage on my street and only had the watts to run the circ pump), nobody broke out. If they ever were gonna…that would have done it. I have also given, Chem Marin’s Stop Parasite, Kick-Ich, garlic, ginger and dips a try. None have ever given a cure. I offer my “anecdotes” for background, nothing more, but most of the authorities in the hobby will give you the same advice (or close) as what I am putting forth to you now. As a sidenote, I always soaked my foods in garlic guard and vitachem as a matter of nutrition and my fish love it. Don’t know if that has been a significant contributing factor, but my fish are always healthy and disease free.

Ok, those are my thoughts. And I did all that without referencing anything……just what I remember. If someone finds an error with the intel, please let me know.

The real issue here is that crypt in your display can be a totally avoidable occurrence..…….with a QUARANTINE tank. Those who know me knew I would not get out of here without mentioning that. Quarantine is one of the most important things that people DO NOT do with the regularity that they should. The only excuse I can ever see for not quarantining your livestock is that you want to have the headaches of parasites in your display. A QT tank can be as simple as a 20 gallon long tank with a HOB filter, a heater, a simple, single tube light and some plastic (PVC cuttings) decorations. You should QT all fish for at least 3 weeks and if they show no ill effects worth treating, then they can join the display. And if, Heaven forbid, they break out with something, you are ready to treat without risking all your pets’ lives.

I hope this helps someone. Even if all it does is convince a few folks to QT their fish, it will be worth the time I just spent typing this all out.

 

[Arreola]

doubleduece - Thank you for the info.

I talked with a clownfish breeder, and he told me that the best thing to do, is to "medicate" the ish along with a "fresh water Bath".
It is kind of agressive treatment, but he asure me that if someting happen to the clown, he will replace it, so I got nothing to loose.

There was some "medications" in teh LFS, the cheapest one is about 1.5$ and he told me that is much better than the 30$ medication from seachem.

The fresh water it make the parasites fall from the fish along with the additive.
I just did as they told me and will post the results tomorrow.
So far, the fish is good.

Arreola

 

[DontXtripNfall]

I hope that the sub-forum won't take away from all the discussion here, its been relatively slow here. Well so anyway remember when I said I was going to get these 2 frags from a GB.. Everyone backed out and left me with 2 reserved frags, I scrambled to find someone but the day before I was going to cancel the order but a buy 3 get one free was posted. They are being shipped out tonight and I will be picking them up tomorrow around 12 from a local UPS center.
Just to tease everyone with my selections:
WYSIWYG Bright Yellow Scrolling Turbinaria
WYSIWYG Purple Polyp Yellow Encrusting Montipora
AWESOME Red Pink Lobophyllia - Several Available
WYSIWYG Kate's Rainbow Palythoas

 

[Reefmack]

DontXtripNfall - now that you've teased us you darn well better post pictures after the new additions open up!

 

[Arreola]

Hi all.
Someting really strange happen in my RSM.
Last weekend I had 1 sick clownfish, 1 really scared Goby, 1 Blenny harrasing the goby and a closed (5 days in a row) Duncan Coral.

Last night I catch the goby and put it in a small acylic box and also did a fresh water dip to the clownfish.

This afternoon I release the Goby and guess what.
The Blenny is not harrasing the goby any more.
No white spots nor popeye on the clownfish.
My Duncans are fully open.

So I'm really happy and at the same time, don't know what changed in the RSM 'cus I haven't done anything!!

Strage?? Maybe an alien came by last night and fix all the problems in the RSM. LOL :hammerhea

Regards
Arreola

 

[Reefmack]

Hi all.
Someting really strange happen in my RSM.
Last weekend I had 1 sick clownfish, 1 really scared Goby, 1 Blenny harrasing the goby and a closed (5 days in a row) Duncan Coral.

Last night I catch the goby and put it in a small acylic box and also did a fresh water dip to the clownfish.

This afternoon I release the Goby and guess what.
The Blenny is not harrasing the goby any more.
No white spots nor popeye on the clownfish.
My Duncans are fully open.

So I'm really happy and at the same time, don't know what changed in the RSM 'cus I haven't done anything!!

Strage?? Maybe an alien came by last night and fix all the problems in the RSM. LOL :hammerhea

Regards
Arreola

Good news! It may have been the blenny/goby combination chasing each other and as a side effect aggravating the corals? With an aggressive fish, removing it for a bit, and then reintroducing it, often leads to the aggressive fish no longer feeling at home and it can lose it aggressiveness. He's lost his sense of territory. Same reason the usual recommendation is to add the most aggressive fish last. Maybe some variation of that is what happened?

Or, the aliens

 

[Arreola]

Reefmack - Thank you.
Things are much better in the RSM today, I would want to know the causes and try to avoid from happening again, but for now I will let things run slowly.
Do you think it has some relation with the "emission free vehicle" that we talked about this morning? LMAO

 

[Reefmack]

Arreola - you have me laughing again.

 

[bryceK]

Well I finally ordered a new RO/DI unit tonight. I ordered the typhoon III from Air Water and Ice. I ordered the 100gpd unit. I don't need that large but wanted to be able to get my buckets filled a little quicker. I am hoping this will help my algae problems. I also ordered a CUC the other day and arrived yesterday. I split up the crew between my RSM and my JBJ nano since I brought it home from the office. I am now trying to decide on an ATO.

 

[DontXtripNfall]

Hmrph.. I'm having a hard time uploading pics to this forum, seems like once I figured out how to it on the other forum it gets taken away.. I'm not to please with the lobo and palys but Terry when I get a chance I'll send u the pics I took off the website along with how they look in my tank...

Also my fans are starting to make noise.. especially the one on the lights when they first come on, i feel like im on an airplane or w/e... and the powerhead on the viewers right stopped working... the metal rod seems to have rusted itself stuck and so only 1 pump and koralia 2 is circulating the tank... im not sure if they are still under warranty but I want to kno what yall think.. i know others have gotten a new fan for free from a pinky person but does anyone know about the PH and direct me to whom i should consult? TX

 

[bryceK]

DontXtripNfall Contacting Pinky at Red Sea is the person to contact for all. How old is your RSM? I haven't had any problems with my PH's but I also clean them every couple of months and a vinegar bath about every six months or so. I do know that several people have mod'd the powerhead set up by using tubing and elbow connectors with a single maxi jet 1200. I am sure others will also add in on this.

 

[Reefmack]

DontXtripNfall - the way you posted pictures on RC should work the same here - Photobucket, if that's what you were using. I use the same method here on Reef Sanctuary and it works fine. On the powerheads - my left RSM powerhead won't come on once in a while, but I found that turning the switch off and on a few times will get it going again. The Red Sea contact information was just posted in the last day or two in the "Ask Red Sea" thread:

Ask Red Sea

I haven't done the mod that bryceK mentioned, but if I can find any pictures of the MJ1200 mod I'll create a post for it.

 

[bryceK]

Here is a link to the pump mod
RSMreefers.com

I hope it is ok to post an external link.
"It is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask permission"

 

[Reefmack]

I just created a separate post on two different MJ1200 pump mods. The one linked above by bryceK, and a different mod:

MJ1200 Pump Mods

Both mods aren't difficult.

The separate post will make these mods easier to locate in the future.