Perefect parameters? Equipment in a 130
- Thread starter Bathtub
- Start date
RSM250PEARL
Member
Just caught up on this thread. Good discussions on the philips ozone generator. One thing I'm unsure of, it comes with ozone safe tubing, so I assume not all plastics/materials are ozone safe for example the skimmers body for one? Plus there's the concern of dosing something without testing for it, even if it is minimal amounts, what's to say over time the levels won't rise and have a negative effect. Perhaps in over-thinking it...
Bathtub
Member
Good points Kay- for sure there will be embrittlement of the plastic regulator regular needle valve I use on my airline. I did a lot of research into this, most skimmers are made of plastics suitable for Ozone (certainly tunze like mine state they are ozone safe)- for a bit more info most of the newer skimmers are made from cell cast - or cast acrylic which is ozone safe, the older extruded acrylic is not, injection moulded (very high end) are...
As for the build up- not really possible to a dangerous level in my opinion due to :
1 carbon in my filter system, so reacts with unwanted ozone (though water would still need to circ through display tank first to get to it I admit)
2 reactivity of ozone- it is a short half life material due to its reactivity, so the chances of it building up to any level without breaking down are small
3 very low level of dose- to put it in perspective if I take the lid off my skimmer cup you can't even smell ozone- the levels are that low, but the empirical evidence shows me it is working in the tank (water clarity is stunning)
4 in the skimmer, so effectively the bubbles are passing out, whilst ozone solubility is good in water, the contact time is limited
5 I know phillips did a LOT of testing on the safety of this as I managed to get into a thread with one of the designers (dutch mad keen aquarist) the kind of levels we are talking could be better considered "trace" than an actual dose.
Terry I am really not a fan of spot REDOX measurements as calibration is a pain and often the kit is off, also without following the fully redox cycle of the tank. I think if you have a continuous monitoring and take the time to calibrate it's useful- but certainly not the "key parameter to water quality" that people used to believe it was when I was looking at this 10 years ago.
In the next system I am building I may well go for a computer controller with Redox reporting....
If I do get a redox I will feedback, also happy to provide the occasional update on how its looking
As for the build up- not really possible to a dangerous level in my opinion due to :
1 carbon in my filter system, so reacts with unwanted ozone (though water would still need to circ through display tank first to get to it I admit)
2 reactivity of ozone- it is a short half life material due to its reactivity, so the chances of it building up to any level without breaking down are small
3 very low level of dose- to put it in perspective if I take the lid off my skimmer cup you can't even smell ozone- the levels are that low, but the empirical evidence shows me it is working in the tank (water clarity is stunning)
4 in the skimmer, so effectively the bubbles are passing out, whilst ozone solubility is good in water, the contact time is limited
5 I know phillips did a LOT of testing on the safety of this as I managed to get into a thread with one of the designers (dutch mad keen aquarist) the kind of levels we are talking could be better considered "trace" than an actual dose.
Terry I am really not a fan of spot REDOX measurements as calibration is a pain and often the kit is off, also without following the fully redox cycle of the tank. I think if you have a continuous monitoring and take the time to calibrate it's useful- but certainly not the "key parameter to water quality" that people used to believe it was when I was looking at this 10 years ago.
In the next system I am building I may well go for a computer controller with Redox reporting....
If I do get a redox I will feedback, also happy to provide the occasional update on how its looking
I checked with my skimmer manufacturer and mine is ozone compatible. From some reading it appears that the ozone can degrade some types of pump seals, etc.
My question on the redox was for Mischko, since he'll be using a unit that (2 - 25mg/h) that might possibly push enough ozone to create issues.
My question on the redox was for Mischko, since he'll be using a unit that (2 - 25mg/h) that might possibly push enough ozone to create issues.
RSM250PEARL
Member
Thanks for the response bathtub, I understand it better now. Are you running the stock skimmer on your 130? Good luck with everything and do keep us updated of progress or any issues you encounter (hopefully there will be none)
Mischko
Member
Won't use a Redox probe for now. Did some reading and guess what, from experience it is said that up to 10 mg/h per 100 litre is quite normal! Well, we will see, I am going to run it on the lowest setting first and go from there. Keep in mind about the size of my skimmer here. Also, an Eheim 1000 is pushing water from the 'clean water' chamber in my sump through 2 Deltecs fluidized filters where it goes first through carbon then biopellets. I am pretty sure most Ozone will leave through the skimmer.
OK on the ozone - keep us posted on any negative effects you may see, or smell. I've seen a few units that can run at that lower range, but I wasn't sure how accurate they are. FYI - I had found this remark on biopellets and ozone:
"Using a UV Sterilizer or Ozone Generator will slow the growth of bacteria in the reactor and increase the cycling time of the SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media."
SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media 1000 ml SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media 1000 ml [SWC XTREME NP ReductionBio Media] - $74.99 : SWC - Salt Water Connection, Protein Skimmers, Calcium Reactors, Filters & Lights
"Using a UV Sterilizer or Ozone Generator will slow the growth of bacteria in the reactor and increase the cycling time of the SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media."
SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media 1000 ml SWC Xtreme NP Reduction Bio Media 1000 ml [SWC XTREME NP ReductionBio Media] - $74.99 : SWC - Salt Water Connection, Protein Skimmers, Calcium Reactors, Filters & Lights
Mischko
Member
Thanks, Terry, I am aware of it. Again, you know my skimmer with the Aquabee 2000. That little beast is doing around 2000 litres an hour and I am pretty sure, judging by the amount of bubbles, that most ozone will be evaporated through the skimmer and/or will react at once in it with the foam.
I am sure Bathtub will have sort of the same effect just he is using a real smal dosis of ozone. Correct me if I am wrong, about 0.55 to 1 mg/h the Philips ozone pump does, right? Bathtub is using a different filtration circulation and along with a smaller skimmer so I assume 2 mg/h with my setup won't really hurt.
I am sure Bathtub will have sort of the same effect just he is using a real smal dosis of ozone. Correct me if I am wrong, about 0.55 to 1 mg/h the Philips ozone pump does, right? Bathtub is using a different filtration circulation and along with a smaller skimmer so I assume 2 mg/h with my setup won't really hurt.
Bathtub
Member
Good point Terry with a potential dosage of 25mg/h I would watch redox more closely...
I read that point on biopellets before (as I was running a uv when I installed the fluidized beds). It makes no sense to me at all as the bacteria are sessile, whilst the population level in the water column is likely reduced slightly by a uv, once they find a food source they will stay there and multiply like mad. I did fire a question to the manufacturer but they never got back to me... Uv's work better against slightly larger organisms is my understanding by affecting the DNA
Kay I'm running a tunze 9002, stock skimmer I found very poor, I bought a euroreef which I love, but the bubble carry over made my tank look like evian water so it had to go...
Mischko- if the ozone hits any carbon it's gone (doesn't even need to be activated carbon) it's a direct reaction- so you should be fine there....
I read that point on biopellets before (as I was running a uv when I installed the fluidized beds). It makes no sense to me at all as the bacteria are sessile, whilst the population level in the water column is likely reduced slightly by a uv, once they find a food source they will stay there and multiply like mad. I did fire a question to the manufacturer but they never got back to me... Uv's work better against slightly larger organisms is my understanding by affecting the DNA
Kay I'm running a tunze 9002, stock skimmer I found very poor, I bought a euroreef which I love, but the bubble carry over made my tank look like evian water so it had to go...
Mischko- if the ozone hits any carbon it's gone (doesn't even need to be activated carbon) it's a direct reaction- so you should be fine there....
0.55 to 1 mg is correct, for the 120-240L Philips unit I believe. They have a few different models I believe. This was a pdf I found on it, but it doesn't list the models or output:
http://ifeelgoood.com/philips_wetenschap_en.pdf
From what I see on Ebay UK they have units for
10-30 liters
40-110 L
120-240 L
200-400 L
400-700 L
But no ozone outputs listed.
http://ifeelgoood.com/philips_wetenschap_en.pdf
From what I see on Ebay UK they have units for
10-30 liters
40-110 L
120-240 L
200-400 L
400-700 L
But no ozone outputs listed.
Mischko
Member
I think so, too Bathtub. My intention is to get the foam thicker. At times my skimmer pulls about 1 litre out daily and add to that evaporation. On a 130D that is quite an amount to keep salinity at a proper level then. And you can imagine that my skimmate then is very concentrated salt-wise.
Hongkonger
Member
Here are the listed outputs, respectively.
0.25, 0.35, 0.45, 0.55 and 2.50 mg/h.
I am actually running a higher model. The 200-400, after doing some research the tolerances for dosing are quite a bit higher. As I see it with this low amount, its really not a dose, more like just adding a bit of trace elements.
Cheers
Captain Nemo
Member
I got a TMC V2 Ozone generator, but I´m not sure wheter I´ve connected it the right way. I have put the tube from the ozone generator into the airchamber of the skimmer cup, while the tube down to the pump is connected as it ever was to the valve that adjusts the amount of air coming from this little airchamber in the skimmer cup. Is this the correct way connecting it? I tried to use a loose valve I had lying about to connect the ozonetubing directly to the tube that leads down to the skimmerpump, but then I found that the skimmer didn´t proce any skimmate at all, so I dropped that and put the ozonetubing back into the airchamber of the skimmercup. Now I got skimmate, so i presume it´s connected the right way. But still...not entirely sure. So, how have you guys connected your ozonetubing?
Captain Nemo
Member
But the tube from the ozone generator goes into the chamber that feeds the skimmer pump (the chamber with the default valve for adjustment of air). But you suggests that I should connect the two together using a separate valve, if I understand you correctly, Terry??
Captain, Mischko is using ozone on his RSM, maybe send a PM to him or drop a message at his thread, good luck
I don't think Mischko is using the stock skimmer?
Mischko
Member
The airtube from the ozone pump outlet must go directly into the skimmer pump otherwise the ozone won't react. The skimmer pump will then suck air over the ozone pump into the skimmer where the ozone can react.
You can, regardless of stock skimmer or not, connect the airtube of the skimmer pump directly to the zone pump. You won't need an airpump then.
So, for the stock skimmer (130D or 250) you take the airtube and connect it to the outlet of the ozone pump. You might have to get another piece of matching airtube to prolong it depending where you have the ozone pump located. Best is to prolong it after the air valve so you can still adjust airflow.
You can, regardless of stock skimmer or not, connect the airtube of the skimmer pump directly to the zone pump. You won't need an airpump then.
So, for the stock skimmer (130D or 250) you take the airtube and connect it to the outlet of the ozone pump. You might have to get another piece of matching airtube to prolong it depending where you have the ozone pump located. Best is to prolong it after the air valve so you can still adjust airflow.