New to Forum - had a disaster

[dport2]

Just lost all my fish except the damsel.

Lost - 1 H. Butterfly, 1 Niger Trigger, 2 Clowns, 1 Melanirus Wrasse, 1 Scooter Blenny and 1 Singapore Angel. 75gallon all parameters were good. Established tank.

On Sunday, added 3 green chromies and 1 saddle puffer. By Monday night, the Butterfly covered in white spots and dead by Tuesday. Took puffer out and back to store (still alive barely when I returned him). Chromies all gone and I suspect Damsel killed them. This morning the clowns, angel and wrasse dead. This afternoon the bleeny and the trigger gone. The damsel is still alive and kicking. ]

No idea what killed them and what killed them so quickly. Ideas?

And when I ran test yesterday and today

Amm 0 then .25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Ph 8
Sp was 1.020 and then 1.019.

All snails and crabs still alive.

Sump system and power head changed to ripple surface water after trouble started. They all started with heavy breathing too. Per the LFS, I put an AB on the food on Tuesday night. They all ate just fine. Then today poof, gone.

 

[reefer gladness]

The tank was already fully stocked before the last 4 fish were added. Some of those fish like the butterfly and trigger belonged in bigger tanks to start.

I'll assume you don't quarantine new arrivals. So 4 new fish were added to a fully stocked tank which creates a stressful environment for all. Whether marine ich was present in the tank before or came in with the 4 new arrivals is academic at this point but that is the most likely reason for the white spots on the butterfly.

.25 ammonia is toxic to fish, this happens because the filtration system of the tank isn't able to adjust quickly to 4 new fish added at the same time, especially when near max filtration capacity to start.

You have a long road ahead. All surviving fish in the display tank need to be placed in a hospital/quarantine tank for treatment and the display tank needs to go fallow for several months to remove the marine ich.

You'll find a bunch of threads in the fish sicknesses and treatments that will tell you how to recognize and treat marine ich, how to quarantine new arrivals, treat using only copper or hypo-salinity (the ONLY methods that work) and how long to let your tank go fallow before adding new fish again.

 

[dport2]

The tank was already fully stocked before the last 4 fish were added. Some of those fish like the butterfly and trigger belonged in bigger tanks to start.

I'll assume you don't quarantine new arrivals. So 4 new fish were added to a fully stocked tank which creates a stressful environment for all. Whether marine ich was present in the tank before or came in with the 4 new arrivals is academic at this point but that is the most likely reason for the white spots on the butterfly.

.25 ammonia is toxic to fish, this happens because the filtration system of the tank isn't able to adjust quickly to 4 new fish added at the same time, especially when near max filtration capacity to start.

You have a long road ahead. All surviving fish in the display tank need to be placed in a hospital/quarantine tank for treatment and the display tank needs to go fallow for several months to remove the marine ich.

You'll find a bunch of threads in the fish sicknesses and treatments that will tell you how to recognize and treat marine ich, how to quarantine new arrivals, treat using only copper or hypo-salinity (the ONLY methods that work) and how long to let your tank go fallow before adding new fish again.

Thanks - this is what I get for trusting my LFS. I was adding per their guidelines as I was trying to be careful. Trigger and butterfly were both smaller, not mature adults.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

sorry to hear ! how old was your tank?

to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members

 

Start a new tank thread & share your tank with us so we can follow along - we love pics

 

[DaveK]

If you learn nothing else on this forum, you learned that many LFS know next to nothing about SW systems.

At this point, since your down to one fish, I'd remove it to a quarantine tank and treat it.

Let the display tank set empty of fish for about 10 weeks so any remaining ick has a chance to die.

Since what you have is a damsel, consider returning it to your LFS, since damsels often don't get along with other fish.

Try to find a better LFS, and quarantine new fish for a long period of time.

 

[sirrealism]

First off Welcome to RS. Lots of great people here to help you. I am sorry to hear about your fish. the truth is most of us have done the same thing at one point and time. This is why you will read everywhere on the forums to QT everything for just this reason. I have been in this hobby for 20+years and until early this year I did not QT my fish. After losing 7 High $ tangs and several other expensive fish I now QT all new fish. Its just not worth it not too.
Agree with DaveK take the Damsel back and start new. let the tank go fallow for 10 weeks so any remaining ICK dies. Pick up a small tank and set up a QT/hospital tank for all new fish. I am going to guess this is a fish only tank? With the trigger and the angel I am guessing. This might be a good time to convert to a full reef.
We love pics so once you get 5 posts done post some pics of your system.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just a question: Did you ever have a functional nitrogen cycle? Zero nitrates has me wondering this.

 

[pgrtgunner]

In the past when I had a tank go south, I would take anyone that survived and put them in a Q-Tank and give them meds.
As for the tank and everything in it (rocks, sand, and plastic plants) BLEACH IT. Bleach will dissipate in 24 hours. If your tank is held together with silicone, don't
go over 30 hours. After that, put cold water in the tank. that will make the silicone shrink up to close it off. Rinse the tank twice and that will
kill any disease that was in the tank before.

 

[DaveK]

In the past when I had a tank go south, I would take anyone that survived and put them in a Q-Tank and give them meds.
As for the tank and everything in it (rocks, sand, and plastic plants) BLEACH IT. Bleach will dissipate in 24 hours. If your tank is held together with silicone, don't
go over 30 hours. After that, put cold water in the tank. that will make the silicone shrink up to close it off. Rinse the tank twice and that will
kill any disease that was in the tank before.

I hate to say this, please don't take offense. Your bringing in methods that work fine in FW, but are seldom used in the SW hobby. SW systems are much more complex ecosystems. If you "bleach bomb" a SW reef system you destroy all the good bacteria, your live rock, and live sand you have worked so hard to acquire in the first place. This is never lightly done and usually does a lot more harm than good. It should only be used where you have had a disease problem that just cant other wise be stopped.

In the op's case, too many fish were added and the disease in question was known. While the losses were unfortunate, this is not a case where the tank should be "bleach bombed".

 

[pgrtgunner]

No offense taken Dave.

But any way you go you'll kill good and bad elements. You will have to start over just to be safe
and watch what you add and how many critters you put into your tank in the future.

If you don't have the time, use bleach, if you have the time, do the long way. I've done bleach in my 125 and 84 gal SW
tanks and they were up and running in 6 weeks.

Bottom line; do what you think is best. There are all kinds of sites that do all kinds of things to get their tanks back and beautiful.

 

[DianaKay]

Hello dport2
:welcomeraWELCOME to Reef Sanctuary
Like the other members, I am very sorry to read of your fish losses
It would be interesting to know how long your tank has been running?
Keep in mind that nothing good happens fast in SW but bad usually does happen fast.
Take all the time needed & do your research well, You can build back.
Start a tank thread here at RS & let the experienced members here be your guide.
Don't let this tragedy end your love of this great hobby.
Wishing you the VERY BEST with getting built back....:biker

 

[puffermike]

Your best investment in this hobby is a QT tank. The benefits of being able to put new fish into an empty tank are superb. You can train them to eat different foods and monitor them closely. They tend to get use to your big face and associate you with feeding.

As far as your tank, I would just scrap it and restart all over again. I had something similar happen to one of my predator tanks in the past. I left it empty for three months. Had new fish QT'd for two months prior with no signs of any parasites. I placed my Tusk into the tank and he got ich a day or two after going back in. That was the moment I tore the tank down. It was almost pointless for me to stare at an empty tank for more than three months. Good luck!

 

[Danreef]

Sorry guys.... I never had a QT .

Did the same mistake as dport2. I went over the fish limit by adding 3-5 fish at the same time. 24-48 hours later they,started to die due to Ich. They were all stressed.

Lesson learned. the same week I got 1 fish . 2 weeks later another and so on until the limit if my tank. All perfect, no stress, well feed, no Ich.

You can do all what was described to treat the tank and the first fish you introduce has a high probability of having ich. Then you are like at the beginning.

I never treated any tank for Ich. I am not new,with marine fish/coral tanks. I am just speaking from my own experience. That is what I did in my tank and worked for me.

 

[Stephane Cote]

Just lost all my fish except the damsel.

Lost - 1 H. Butterfly, 1 Niger Trigger, 2 Clowns, 1 Melanirus Wrasse, 1 Scooter Blenny and 1 Singapore Angel. 75gallon all parameters were good. Established tank.

Ph 8

Sorry for your loss.. it must be heartbreaking. Welcome to the group!

now, that phos, is it 0.08 or 8.0? or 0.8?

to me thats extremely high and a really good chance of algae bloom

steph

 

[pgrtgunner]

Don't wait 10 weeks to get up and running again, PLEASE!!! By the time you wait that long, you may just say "screw it" and sell all of it.
Just dig and get up and running.

You know where to come for help. JUST DO IT!!!!

 

[StirCrayzy]

Bad things happen fast. I'd like to think most reefers that know the benefits of a healthy tank won't have a problem waiting. I did, after losing a tank full of fish, and to be 100% Ich free is an awesome feeling.

Leaving Ich in a tank and knowingly adding fish into that environment is careless. Just a statement of logic.

 

[dport2]

Thanks all for the responses. I took a sample of water to the LFS. The ammonia was up at .25 but I attributed that to the dead fish. However, the nitrates were more than 0 and their thought was the tank was going through a cycle for some reason. None of the other fish ever showed signs if ich so I'm not sure that is the culprit, especially the speed with which the fish died. I'm letting the tank sit for 2-3 weeks and will test all the levels again then. Odd thing is all of my snails crabs and the damsel (already mentioned) not only lived but are doing fine.

I think at the end of day I added too many fish in that one last fill and that stressed everyone out. I had only been adding 1 (and on 1 other occasion 2) fish at a time.

I know the varying theories on ich include the all tanks have it at some point and that the stress is what brings it out. I will probably invest in a QT the next go round and add the fish slowly. The LFS promised to give me some deals on the next round of fish and one guy appears to actually know his stuff and we have a plan on the type of fish to start with whenever we start again. I'm just glad I had not invested in any real expensive fish.

 

[dport2]

Hello dport2
:welcomeraWELCOME to Reef Sanctuary
Like the other members, I am very sorry to read of your fish losses
It would be interesting to know how long your tank has been running?
Keep in mind that nothing good happens fast in SW but bad usually does happen fast.
Take all the time needed & do your research well, You can build back.
Start a tank thread here at RS & let the experienced members here be your guide.
Don't let this tragedy end your love of this great hobby.
Wishing you the VERY BEST with getting built back....:biker

Thank you.

My tank had been running for roughly 10 weeks as I recall. (Meaning after cure and putting in first fish)

I will stick with it for now. It really bummed me out because I had read and taken some time to try and do it right but I suppose got a little too aggressive with the last additions. I will take my time. My goal is to run this 75 gallon for a year or so and then look into investing into a 150-200. If I have another catastrophic loss then that might well mute my vigor for the hobby.

 

[bullet]

if your tank is down already maybe look into the larger tank now as it is a lot easier and more forgiving than a smaller tank as most people on here would agree bigger is better in the long wrong we started with a 29 biocube and then purchased a 110gal with a 40 gal sump and wish we had done this from the get go not that we had a ton of problems but you are limited in a smaller tank