new tank still has no ammonia! did i do something wrong?

[halobaby]

o.k. my tank -65 gal still is showing no signs of ammonia. i had to restart the cycle as i decided to put my raw live rock(from an established tank) into it and removed my filter (my local store gave me wrong directions and after 2 weeks of having a bare tank they told me to add my rock and remove my filter) so now it's been another week since live rock(about 50 lbs) has been added and i'm still at 0 everything. the tank has a filter, and 2 powerheads and a heat stick. the water i used was high in nitrates(reads 20 ppm out of tap) along with salt and a 25lb bag of sand(crushed coral). my qt tank-29 gal, (trying not to let it cycle so no sand was added) has perhaps 20lbs live rock, a whisper tetra filter system, a sea clone protein skimmer and a powerhead in it and it's nitrates are at 20 ppm(used same water and salt as cycling tank) it also has a blue hippo tang and since saturday 2 new snails-not sure of kind as store didn't know but said they were "reef safe".
anyways, my question is could i have possibly messed up the cycling process by adding the rock. the rock in the big tank went white for the most part and now seems to have some "stuff" growing on it. the rock in the qt tank is going brown-i think it's hair algea hence the snails and has stuff growing on it.

could my big tank pass the ammonia stage due to high nitrates in the water?

how long should it normally take for ammonia to start to show?

should/would my lights being on help to speed up the process?

do i just need more patience?

 

[Bearjohnson]

What have you added (if anything) to the tank to start the cycle?

 

[halobaby]

just sand and live rock. before i had to start the whole thing over i added some "grunge" stuff from the reef store but they had me leave the filter in the tank so i'm sure it was all filtered out. then i had to remove all the water, add sand and live rock and i put the water back in. i am also adding reef calcium stuff every other day as prescribed by store. i am also feeding the tank flake food every other day. u think i should put something else in there too?

 

[Bearjohnson]

First thing to consider is the fact that the local fish store (and we all have one) in in business to sell. So just keep that in mind. You'll save a ton of money by leaving the fish store and running everything they tell you to buy though this forum before you purchase. No one in here will steer you wrong.

I'm not sure what reef calcium stuff you're adding but you can stop adding that for now. Be careful what you dose into the tank.

If you're positive the tank has not cycled, go get yourself a couple of raw deli shrimp and plop them in the tank. You can stuff them in old panty hose and tie it in the flow of your power head in the tank to help speed things up a bit. Or - you can just plop them in and watch them float around. Your good bacteria needs food to build and I know that's why you're adding the flake.

With all that you described and I could be misinterpreting what you have written, it almost sounds like a lot of the good has been killed off early on. I could be wrong but that what it sounds like.

I'm not sure if I read that you have fish in the tank or not but there shouldn't be any fish in the tank while you're cycling the tank.

Deli shrimp will get things moving for you and if you already did cycle, they will just help make your system healthier.

Hope this helps

 

[halobaby]

thanks. and don't worry the fish and mystery snails are in a different tank. i'll get some raw shrimp and add it. i think it might have had a 1 day die off(the tank) as i recall the ammonia did get to .5 i think(the next colour after 0) but the next day nothing. also the rock had a massive die off as one day it looked horrible(all brown and yucky) and the next day pure white(almost bleached) but i think i am supposed to get a "spike" in ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate. that never happened yet. we are impatient/bored so we test every second day. the stuff i am adding is reef complete and reef carbonate. both twice a week. i'll try the shrimp thing. thanks again

 

[halobaby]

also i am now thinking of taking out some of the live rock as i think it's too crowded. that shouldn't cause a problem eh?

 

[theplantman]

Another point, you should not use tap water for mixing your salt water or top off. Even if its well water, there are to many solids and nutrients in the water and even if you do get the tank to cycle, you are adding elements that will stress your inhabitants and eventually cause taxing algae and cyano outbreaks. Use rodi water and you will have much better results. Also, if your live rock came from an established tank that already cycled, it has the bacteria in it to break down the ammonia, don't be surprised if you see a very small or short cycle. Test every day to keep an eye out for it. Good luck.

 

[halobaby]

another question. what happened to my nitrates? in the qt tank i am struggling to keep them down (can't order online and cant find a rodi in stores) but in the cycling tank there are none. i would think that because i put 20ppm in there i should at least still have 20 ppm like in the qt tank. where did they go?

 

[BigAl07]

Here are my thoughts:

• A) don't rush it in this stage. An aquarium is like a house and you MUST build a strong foundation for everythign else to sit upon. You rush the foundation and everything is on shaky ground. A reef tank is no place to rush but the cycle is the LAST place to even think about being impatient.
• B) Yes you need to toss a deli shrimp in and sit back and "watch" the cycle. I say "shrimp it and forget it".
• C) Don't dose anything right now. Heck my tanks are years old and I'm not dosing anything. If you MUST dose then you had better have all the test kits to test for whatever you're dosing. Dosing without testing is setting up for a hard crash. If you don't test for it do NOT dose for it.
• D) Your NO3 (Nitrates) may have been diluted when you added that water to this tank's water. With a fairly new (or many older tanks) they can't process NO3 completely into Nitrogen and Oxygen so we do water changes to get rid of the NO3. Also remember our test kits are "Hobby Grade" so there is always a wide margin of error. When in doubt ALWAYS error on the side of caution and assume the reading is worse than it appears.
• E) If you can't order online and you can't find an RO/DI in your LFS (they should have tons of sources for RO/DI) then you might want to partner up with a local reefer and work out some way to order together. You may need to source out another LFS even if you have to drive farther.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. We all started in the same place so we've been there and done that too

 

[sicksnoopy71]

Your not seeing Ammonia because your hair algae is eating it all up. This is why you see some then you don't. Not good because getting rid of hair algae is a pain in the bootea. Do not add any chemical supplements because that is the worst thing you could do right now at this stage. The blue hippos are notorious for getting ick so I would make sure to do water changes often since you started the process a it wrong. Cut your lights back to 8 hours to aide you in slowing down the process of algae grow. Don't go buying too many hermits and snails because you think this is what is going to cure your algae problems. Keep the live rock in (unless you are pulling them out to cure them again) more live rock the better. It acts as a natural filtration system. You also need sand because a healthy sand bed helps out in many ways too. Make sure that you have sufficient filtration and constantly clean your filters at this stage so that you can get rid of the algae problem it seems is occurring. And lastly never us tap water. This is the first thing you should fix. Even if you have to buy store water until you can get your own ro system. Patience is key but right now you need to work at at fixing these things fast since you have live stock in your tank.:hallo: Till next time and good luck.

 

[sicksnoopy71]

you can find ro systems cheap on ebay.

 

[BigAl07]

While it's true algae will consume "Ammonia" the rate at which it does is not very efficient and in order to have enough algae to "scrub" a tank clean of high levels of Ammonia would require a HUGE amount of algae. Usually the only aquatic systems that utilize algae to scrub the system of ammonia are what we call "Green Water" systems. The water is in fact GREEN for the immense amount of algae available in the water column. I seriously doubt "algae scrubbing" is the reason for no Ammonia to be seen.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sicksnoopy71]

Actually I have experienced similar situations as his before which is why I can relate. He says he sees hair algae on snails which is a sign of much of it in the tank. Enough to show no signs of ammonia when testing depending on when he tests. I had a hair algae problem once due to old bulbs and tested my water frequently with no signs of ammonia. Unless of course his testing is bad. However, he did say he would test and see some ammonia then test and see none.

 

[halobaby]

o.k. i'm confused so i think i will try and clear this up a bit lol.

i have 2 tanks. one is 35 gal and is trying to cycle. the other is 29 gal and has my fish in it with 2 unknown species of snails
here are pics of the 29 gal tank.

the last one is of the snails. any guesses on what kind they are?

anyways from the pics you should be able to see what i think is hair algea. maybe i'm wrong and its good algea maybe its something totally different. i don't know what it is. this tank has high nitrates 20ppm which is exactly what i accidently put in with my tap water. it has 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. this tank has not cycled as i need a tank to house my fish until the other tank cycles. i added the fish, about 30% of the water, and the live rock from an existing established tank. i am really hoping that this tank will not cycle until after my fish is safely in the other tank.

here are some pics of the 35 gal "cycling" tank.

this tank has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 0 nitrates. this tank was filled 100% with my tap water which after testing on 5 different days has 20ppm nitrates. As you can see it does have some coulour on some of the rocks but it's not covered like the 2 rocks in the other tank.

what is on my rock? is it hair algea? what about the white patch of stuff in the 29 gal. is that a bad algea as well? and instead of deli shrimp to help cycle the big tank, can i just use one of the frozen ones i've been feeding big blue(my hippo tang)?

 

[whippetguy]

My guess is that you have cured rock(means already cycled) which is why you're not seeing an ammonia/nitrite spike. The tank will still go through algae cycles, ie. hair, diatoms. Once your tang is in the main tank, it may take of some of the algae for you. It still wouldn't hurt to the deli shrimp in tank to make sure. If you still don't get an ammonia/nitrite spike, you're good to go. Water changes will help bring down nitrates assuming the nitrates aren't coming from your tap water.



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