Need help with new Reef tank

[MrMattyMooks]

Hey. I recently set up a 29g biocube. i let cycle with live rock and beleived i had my spikes and everything leveled. the tank is about 6 weeks old now. i had some jasmine, and what looks like xenia polyps (i know that is not correct), as well as a rock that had mushrooms and then some polyps started growing off of them. They looked similar to the ones i call xenia polyps, but are defenetly not the same thing. it seemed as if everything was going great, the polyps on the mushroom rocks even started spreading. everything else has been going in the tank fine. I am new to this, and at the advice of LFS, i put in a 1 torch head, and toadstool. that was about 2 days ago. the toadstool was connected to 2 little rubble rocks from the store, which it disconnected from one after the first night. i moved, and next day it started to come alive, but then all of a sudden kind of fell over on itself. i read on here to just leave it alone which i did, and it seemed to stiffin back up today. but nothing is coming out of it, it just looks like a peice of leather. the torch was alive and rocking, and when i got home today it has fallen off the branch, and just the head is laying on the rock next to it. It still seems very alive and flowing. I am going to do a water test ( i do ever 2 - 3 days), as of sunday, my levels seemed perfect. I knew i was going fast with what i was putting in there, and expected some loss (if not alot) but now that i have it going i dont want to loose anything. i want to try and take a step back and do the right thing but unfortunately i do now know what to do. I run a pet store so i have access to just about anything within a few days from our distributors. the other store i go to i feel is just starting to sell me whatever i ask about. i am going to test my water and post everything in a little bit. thanks in advance

 

[tnwillia]

Welcome to RS!

Pause and start reading now will really help you. If you've not looked, read thru this it may help you out. Good luck!

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...rs/33555-look-frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[DesertOrchid]

Leathers can pout for a few days whenever they are moved then perk up just fine. Let them acclimate before getting too worried.

 

[MrMattyMooks]

im trying to upload pictures. but im having trouble.. the one thing i also forgot. the little polyps that were on the mushroom rock, the new ones the popped up and half of the original are open and fine, but a good half of them are completely closed and have been now the whole day. usually they will close up, but re-open within an hour or so completely. im worried these 2 things i put in there are causing a problem. or maybe im just getting the problems of a new tank now. i am stopping trying to post the pics so i can test my water, anyway i doubt anyone on here really needs to see it. thanks for responding already, once i test my water i am going to read the whole FAQ.

its hard because ive been getting most of my information either online, or at that store. and i get 10 different versions of everything.

should i try to glue the torch back on to the stalk? or can he survive on the live rock?

thanks again

 

[sasquatch]

Hi and WELCOME! the torch can't be left lying down or it will get damaged, if you can stick it in the sand it will be ok for a bit, then you can epoxy it to a rock or a plug, leathers never surrender, crazy glue gell it back on the rubble, as stated they will pout for a while but be fine, ignore the lfs and just ask questions here, we won't try to sell you anything and so far sounds like your on the right track.

 

[MrMattyMooks]

i am going to just ask on here. I thought by waiting 2 weeks before puting things in and doing in a weekly basis was slow enough (as the store said i was doing fine).. but now i feel i have way to much in the right off the bat. i do not have glue. what glue / epoxy can i use thats safe. As for the torch... i was completely wrong about being decapitated. it just fell over. the way it fell , the old break underneath happened to fall in a way it looked exactly like the stalk, and it was white and squishy so i was wrong, and didnt want to try moving it, but when i did i realized it wasnt broken. I think alot with the toadstool is that i need to lock him onto something. i feel like the current is to strong, theres not big enough a peice of rock hes connected to for me to anchor him between other rocks, and i dont want to crush his softer base part. So he has blown over a few times. i just decided screw it and i moved him again, this time i feel i did get his little rubble rock anchored between 2 other rocks but i really want to glue him down.

testing water now.

also, i am using Coral-Vite, coral excel, iodide, strontium, and reef base A & B for calcium and Alk. i was using purple up, but was told its a waste untill the calcium and alkalinity are perfect. last test calcium was at 380, and i brought up to 420. alkalinty was at 8 and i brought up to 10. should i be using more/less?

im curious to see where im at now.

Thanks again for everything

 

[MrMattyMooks]

ok heres how my water tested... Ph - 7.8-8.0, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 2.5-5.0, nitrate - 5.0-10, Phosphate - 0 -.25, Calcium - 420, kh- 196.6/11, all API test kits. i was also told by LFS that Api didnt have a KH test (which i realized when i got home i already had it) and i bought an ELOS KH test hit which tested at 10.

the results i had sunday were ... Ph - 8.0, Ammonia 0-.25, nitrite - .25, nitrate - 5-10, phosphate - 0-.25, calcium 380 (then added chems and it was 400), kh - api-9 (10 after chems) Elos KH - 8 (8.5 after chems).

i really have no idea what to do. i was told not to change any of the media for at least 2 months. so other then adding water when needed and chemicals i havent done anything.

is any of this too high? it seems as if the nitrites are rising again, and the nitrates rose again and now seemed to have stopped. Im nervous to do a water change. i read alot about refugium's and dont know if i should already be adding one of those. both the jasmine and "xenia looking polyps" are barely open. same with the similar ones growing on the mushroom rock.

i also was told by the LFs to put in 2 emerald crabs to help clean the tank. My fiancee noticed he ripped off a mushroom today. and i have a sebea anemone that they both seem to stay around and i keep noticing them underneath him, or on him, and he let go of the rocks twice today. i was able to put him back where i wanted him and he seems to be staying put, but im thinking those 2 little f'ers need to go.

thanks again everyone.
Matt
im going to read the FAQ now. Any help is much appreciated

 

[Rhodes19]

Hi MrMattyMooks and :welcomera to RS

Lets see if I can help and answer some of your questions.

Ok, to start with, definitely read the FAQs. That is a good place to start. Now, not to be a downer but there are a couple of things that need to be addressed. First, and I think you discovered it, you are moving way to fast and you are stocking your tank to fast as well. Every time you add a new fish or coral, you will get a mini cycle until the system can reach homeostasis, so don't add anything else for a while. Your tank is still young and trying to mature.

Posting pictures. I think you have to have posted so many post (20 I think) before you can up load pictures. A moderator will have to verify that or help you with it.

For glue you can use the super glue gel or you can use a rubber band to hold the softies to a rock until they attach themselves.

Stop using all the additives you are putting into your tank. The saying is if you don't test for it then don't use it. In other words, if you don't test for what you're dosing then you could be dosing your tank way to much and that can be a bad thing. As you are testing for Ca and Alk, then you can safely dose them.

It looks like your nitrates are high. Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and phosphates should be as close to 0 as possible.

One thing that is missing is your specific gravity or salinity readings. Can you post those?

What kind of media are you running? Where do you have it? What are you using for filtration. Have you modified your BC 29? (I have a BC 14).

Are you adding fresh water or salt water when you do your top offs?

Are you using tap water or RO/DI water for top of and salt water?

If the nitrites and nitrates are rising again, you are most likely going through a mini cycle.

Refugiums are good to have. You can either get one that fits into the back chambers of your BC 29 or you can use another tank and plump the 2 together. FWIW, I don't have a fug or skimmer on my BC 14.

2 emerald crabs may be to many for your 29. If they get hungry I believe they will go after the corals. Search "crabs are evil"

To be honest with you, I think you need to return the sebea anemone. They are a difficult anemone to keep, they are aggressive and they will out grow your 29. Plus, your tank is way to young for any anemone. Its recommended that you wait at least 6-9-12 months until you add one. If your BC 29 has PC lighting that will also make it hard to keep an anemone. Its do able but every other parameter needs to be spot on.

With all that you have going on and with all the supplements you have added, I would highly recommend doing a 50% water change. That is also a good way to lower your nitrate levels.

Let us know more about your media, filtration, and your SG/salinity. We can offer more advice once we know more.

I hope that helps. Sorry if I can across too abruptly.

Chris

 

[Val]

great post Chris! +1 to you

 

[MrMattyMooks]

Thanks chris.

gravity is 1.024

i have been taking tap water and adding a little salt and adding when needed. I know now i have gone way to fast, and just want to stabalize now. im using the filtration that came with the biocube, i have a protein skimmer also. other then that , thats it.

with the water change, i would imagine this is the same way i originally filled the tank.
mix the water / salt outside tank then add? how soon should i do this, i mean its 1am tonight, so id prefer do this tomorrow night after work.

with the crabs, i give each one a peice of krill each day, read somewhere if i do this it should calm them down.
and i did read the "crabs are evil" about 5 hours after putting them in. ive been afraid of ripping the tank apart to get them out. they are really small. so trying to feed them and hoping, but i guess not working.

with the chemicals.. what about the coral-vite and coral excel? at this point it seems as if your saying i should just be using the calcium and alkalinity and thats it?

thanks again, and by no means to abrupt

Matt

 

[Rhodes19]

Hi Matt,

I would start using RO/DI water as soon as you can. Tap water can have a not of junk in it including nitrates, phosphates, chloramine.... all the stuff you don't want in a reef tank. If you can get a RO/DI unit, I would get one. You won't regret it. Use the stock filter for now but look at modifying your BC 29 to give it a better filtration system. That can be from removing the stock filter and use filter floss (or in my case, pillow stuffing out of my wife's crafts closet) on the top of the second chamber and adding a bag of carbon to the bottom of chamber 2, to putting in a media basket from StevieT, to connecting a separate tank and using it as a sump/fug. Are you treating the tap water before you us it?

Water changes are pretty easy. Mix enough salt with clean fresh water (RO/DI preferred) and ideally, let it set for a day so the salt can dissolve and age a bit. Drop in a small water pump or power head into the new salt water for circulation and add a heater so the new water temp will match the tank temp. Same with SG, match the new water to the tank water. This will reduce the stress to your live stock. Drain 25-50% of the tank water and replace it with the new salt water. Once every 2 weeks should be fine but keep an eye on your parameters. WC are a good way to reduce nitrates. 50% wc equals 50% reduction in nitrates (if you use tap water you will most likely be adding nitrates to your tank).

Try to keep the crabs full. If they continue to tear up your corals, you'll have to pull them from your tank.

Yeah, I would stop with the chemicals for now. You need to let your system settle down. With the corals you have now, all they really need is a good light source (photosynthesis via good bacteria in their tissue) and the trace minerals from your salt. By doing regular wc, you export nitrates/waste and replenish the minerals. I know the bottle says the products do not full nuisance algae, but nutrients are nutrient IMHO. As far as Ca and alk go, only dose them if their parameters are off. If they are with in range, I wouldn't dose. Also, by doing wc, you help replenish Ca and alk as well. By how much depends on the brand salt you are using.

HTH.

 

[MrMattyMooks]

ok. i am going to start the water change tonight.

i am using the instant ocean sea salt mix.


as of this morning the toadstool is opening slowly, everything else seems to be open except one set of polyps. i decided im bringing the anemone back into my store and into our display tank. im going back and forth with the crabs. i work alot, so im not home for 11 hours a day. i was able to feed one crab this morning, but the other f'er is no where to be found and im sure he will be wrecking everything once im gone.

is it worth it to start taking things out?. like the few fish or more of the coral or should i just ditch the anemone and leave the rest alone...

also, should i be testing for more then i am?

thanks chris

matt

 

[MrMattyMooks]

also... i know this is probably gonna be the terrible...

but...

RO/DI? DI= distilled?

ro/di unit?

where do you typically get this from? or can i just take a poland spring jug from work?

 

[MrMattyMooks]

also... i feel as i should really let you guys know just how overboard i have gone with this tank... in it i have

jasmine polyps, "xenia polyps" (i think zoosomething), small frag of green polyps, green/red mushroom rock with small polyps (the ones not opening fully), one head torch, toadstool, 2 feather dusters, 2 small clown fish, sm yellow & hippo tang, firefish, ylw watchmen goby. 2 emerald crabs, 4 turbo snails, 1 red, 2blue hermits

as i type this i know more and more how i should have come on this prior to starting this endeavor

thanks again for all your help

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members

To upload pics... might checkout this thread... it has helped a lot of members ... http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ay-post-pics-photobucket-nanoreefing4fun.html

 

[Rhodes19]

to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members

To upload pics... might checkout this thread... it has helped a lot of members ... http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ay-post-pics-photobucket-nanoreefing4fun.html

Thanks Glenn.

 

[Rhodes19]

also... i feel as i should really let you guys know just how overboard i have gone with this tank... in it i have

jasmine polyps, "xenia polyps" (i think zoosomething), small frag of green polyps, green/red mushroom rock with small polyps (the ones not opening fully), one head torch, toadstool, 2 feather dusters, 2 small clown fish, sm yellow & hippo tang, firefish, ylw watchmen goby. 2 emerald crabs, 4 turbo snails, 1 red, 2blue hermits

as i type this i know more and more how i should have come on this prior to starting this endeavor

thanks again for all your help

Wow, you're not kidding. I was going to say take the nem back and keep the rest but now that I see what the rest is......

Definitely take the nem back. If it dies, it's going to nuke your tank. I would also take the yellow and hippo tang back. Tangs need a lot of room to swim and the BC 29 is way to small for their health. Typically, you want at least 60" of swimming space in a 90 g or larger. I don't consider myself a tang police but there is a lot of good info on what tangs need to thrive. A good rule of thumb for stocking sw fish is 1" of adult/full grown fish per 5 gallons of water. In other words you could have 6 one inch fish in your BC 29 or you could have one 6" fish in your BC 29. Figure out what size your fish are going to be when they grow up and figure how many of they you can keep. It basically comes down to swimming space, territory, and water quality.

Your inverts (coral, dusters, snails and crabs) should be ok to keep. Just keep an eye on the emerald crabs.

Ok, now for the other questions.

Instant Ocean is ok to use. Many folks use it.

A good set of tests should be:
Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates
Phosphates
SG
Alk
Ca
Mg
pH
Temp

You can test for more but with the corals you have and with regular wc, you probably won't have to. When you get more into lps and sps, then other tests would be good but for now, the above tests will do.

RO/DI = reverse osmosis/de ionized water. You can by a RO/DI filter from a lfs (local fish store) or visit our sponsors and buy one from them. They tend to have more choices and better prices IMO.

Distilled water is ok and pretty inexpensive. Having you own RO/DI will make live a little easier. Don't use bottled water, that's basically filtered tap water.

HTH

 

[MrMattyMooks]

Thanks again chris for all the help.

im starting the process for the water change tonight. brought home extra pump heater and everything i will need. bringing back some stuff tomorrow. i noticed some spots on the hippo, so he was getting out of there regardless.

how long after i do the water change can i retest and expect accurate readings?

i really want to say thank you again to everyone that has been giving me advice, i really appreciate it.

 

[Rhodes19]

Were the spots on the hippo white? Check and see if it's marine ich. If it is, you're going to have to quarantine and treat the fish in another tank and let your BC 29 sit fallow (fishless) for 8 weeks to make sure the ich cycle is broken. Any new fish you put in there needs to be quarantined and treated if need be.

I'd give the wc a day or 2 before checking again. You have to remember that your tank is a dynamic system and the water parameters will be changing constantly for a while until the tank hit equilibrium and that could be in a couple of months to a year.

HTH.

 

[sasquatch]

well Mooks! you did go a bit bonzo lol, woohoo! don't stress its all doable if you stay the coarse, can't be jumping around from this to that, stability in a tank has more to do with the reef keeper than you might guess, sometimes we get a little carried away trying to do our best and we end up killing with kindness, everything we do affects something else in some way, the key is to not rock the boat, water changes are your new best friend if your unsure how to do a proper one just ask, a water change will refresh whatever is needed, a water change is safe and does no harm. Work through the issues one by one and it will all be fine.