Nano Craze

[dobejazz]

i dont want this thread to offend Nano keepers,,,but to let them know the limitations. ive seen some stunning nanos,,,tighaboy for one, but the knowledge and "eye" have to be there.

Kelli, im not saying success cant be had for beginners,,,but if you looked at the average,,,odds are against success with a smaller tank. granted a few people may feel offended initially by this thread, "hey i have a nano and its great you all are idiots", but many here are looking for help beyond the LFS, they want to be part of this world,,,,and together we can help them.

this hobby has many opinions, I, personally love hearing all sides. i do voice mine,,,but i will let any one stand on the soapbox and applaud them for speaking up ansd sharing theirs,,,this his how we learn......


so,,,back to proper stocking of nanos...i pictured a tank,,,thoughts,,what would be best?

Witty I agree 100 percent nano's are tough and I am not offended at at by the thread I feel it is a great discussion and hopefully will help people researching a nano tank before they purchase. I had attempted salt water tanks probably about 15 years ago with great failure And saw the nano as an opportunity to get back in the hobby.

The LFS I purchased it from was not as upfront about the limitations of the nanocube when I bought it but with research I have a very nice softy tank.

 

[Witfull]

having redirected another thread to this one form this thread.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...-discussion/11448-canopy-lights-nanocube.html

lets talk about nano lighting. most come with barely adequate lighting for low light sessile animals. that has created a whole new market for upgrades. for the true reefer this is our playland and love tinker and create. but im not adressing us, my concern is for the walk in the door customer. as Gina mentioned. you see them as you walk in the door. prominately placed to catch your eye as you walk in. they are great looking....but lets think a little bit deeper and ask why do they look good. could it be that they have someone there everyday, one of us tinkerers that love to play with tanks? my thinking, yes. but on to the subject of light. they have the stock lights. do they have any other suplimenting light? most LFS have big windows up front. hmm,,,natural sunlight supliment. look up, what do you see? a ceiling full of flouresent lights,,,could they help? they may not be proper spectrum but its light enhancement.

any other thoughts?

 

[dfraley_23]

I agree with bigger the tank the easier to maintain but who really has $1,000 or more to invest in a large aquarium?I know I dont right now.A 55g tank or larger is great and I wish I had one but people keep it in the budget.I have a 29g reef tank because I dont have a fortune to spend on a large one.You shouldnt hate to sell them because people cant afford a large one,happy with the small nano or dont have the room for bigger!!Or maybe I misunderstand what message your trying to get through.

 

[Witfull]

yes, bigger tanks are easier. smaller tanks have some inherrent difficulties. and the new nano cubes have even more. these include, poor filtration, no place to put a skimmer, poor lighting (as advertised animals that can be kept in them) poor surface to depth ratio, and in quite a few instances, poor construction.

i personally feel we as hobbyist have a first and foremost responsibility to the animals. the "Industry" should also have this as their priority. but oft times it appears that its not. we have to be self-regulating,,,or government could very easily step in. there have already been several bills introduced to Congress to highly regulate the industry.

after Nemo came out there was a serious run on LFS' for tanks. most were from parents wanting to appease their children who wanted Nemo and dory. as i mentioned earlier, Tetra Corp went on National TV exploiting how easy it was. i shudder to think how many fish died in that movement.

i think its absolutely wrong to be selling 5g and less tanks to people as a saltwater tank, and promoting it as easy. in one LFS i actually saw them selling right on the register, the "NEW 1g desk reef" it had a chunk of LR in it a percula clown, a scooter blenny, a goniopora and a colt coral.

as i said earlier, this isnt ment to offend dedicated reefers, but to bring this to the forefront of everyone mind. proper stocking, neccesary daily attention, and commitment to the animals.

 

[mps9506]

I agree with bigger the tank the easier to maintain but who really has $1,000 or more to invest in a large aquarium?I know I dont right now.A 55g tank or larger is great and I wish I had one but people keep it in the budget.I have a 29g reef tank because I dont have a fortune to spend on a large one.You shouldnt hate to sell them because people cant afford a large one,happy with the small nano or dont have the room for bigger!!Or maybe I misunderstand what message your trying to get through.

The problem is many people that purchase nano tanks don't know what they are getting into. The nano reef is more of a challange to maintain than a larger reef tank, whether it be 30 gallons 40 gallons or 100 gallons.
People need to know the filtration and size is not suitable to keep more than one or two of the smallest saltwater fish, and the lighting is not suitable to keep more than the lowest light demanding of all corals.
I don't hate to sell nano reefs, in fact I have a sunlit nano tank on my desk next to my bed. However, there are no fish in it, just a hermit some algae, a mushroom and a majano anemone. Most customers come into my store to start SW want an anemone and a clown fish (I hate it, but it's the truth). I am NOT selling these people a nano cube and telling them that they can throw an anemone in it. They might end up going to PetCo down the street where they are told they can keep any coral under flo. lights. But they will be back once they realize they were given a bunch of cow poop.

 

[Witfull]

thh, a stanard 29g is better than any cube tank. surface area vs. depth ratio is better, ability to add needed equipment is available. but limitations are still there. and all to many times....customers are sold a bill of goods of emtpy promises.i am all in favor of people comimg into the hobby. but in the same reguard, i am repsonsible for diseminating information and the truth. the latest craze of Nanos fo the neophite is a deathtrap to animals, and that i wish to change.

not to sound elite, but...this hobby has a required monetary investment. its not something to be ventured into lightly. lives are at stake. i hate killing things, and yes i have killed. but through this i have gained knowedge. learn from my mistakes,,,it benefits every one,,,,you, your money, and the lives of creatures. i wil continue to make mistakes,,,but over-simpifying things to the novice discourages them and as a whole makes every one look bad.

Rule #1 Responsibilty. an Animal was taken from its home and entrusted to you. we must not only take its survival to heart, but its genetic propegation. who knows,,,with environmental changes,,,,we may very well have the future in our tanks.

 

[cheeks69]

Excellent thread and excellent points. I wouldn't recommend a Nano to anyone who doesn't have any SW experience. With such a small volume of water any amount of evaporation will have an effect on salinity levels which will affect inverts immediately. Another thing I notice with some of these types of tanks is the cover/lid which contains the filtration, it prevents evaporation leading to temperature and gas exhange problems.

People need to know the filtration and size is not suitable to keep more than one or two of the smallest saltwater fish, and the lighting is not suitable to keep more than the lowest light demanding of all corals.

Stocking levels of fish are probably the biggest problem. IME knowing the limits of your bio-load is something that has to be learned with time very few beginners understand this. SW fish is what got me into the hobby and it took a long time and alot of fish deaths unfortunately to finally understand that.

 

[tinyreef]

I wouldn't recommend a Nano to anyone who doesn't have any SW experience.

i used to take that position, but nowadays after seeing what some "newbies" can do with nano-reefing, i've changed my stance.

i've altered it to be: "i wouldn't recommend nano-reefing to anyone who doesn't have the patience to learn the hobby first."

because imo, whether you do traditional reefing or nano-reefing, ignorance will result in the same thing, tank crash or livestock loss. the difference between the two is the scale of monies involved. it's that economic difference that makes the average person think twice/give more thought/research more for the traditional reef. will the traditional reef has a slightly bigger cushion of error? sure, but the basic "oops" are still the same.

but allowing for the same amount of research and patience, i think anyone can succeed at nano-reefing or traditional reefing. while i would still agree that the arguement of the inherently high cost of traditional reefs should weed out the casual hobbyist it's not a likely scenario to force nano-reefers to pay a surcharge or something to that effect.

the push should be for educating the new hobbyist versus pushing them to larger tanks as historically advised. a small bit of information/education will be much more effective than having an extra 40-gallons of volume imho.

btw, i also don't agree that nanos are a fad. it's a viable niche that will likely outgrow the rest of the niches and imo dominate the hobby in the future, because it now makes reefing accessible to anyone. traditional reefing limited the audience to deep-pockets (relatively) or hard-core dedicated hobbyists.

otoh, nano-reefing now increases the target audience to everyone! (whether that's a good thing or a scary thing is another topic of discussion)

 

[KMP]

mixed feelings reading this thread.

i understand the message...small package deal tanks are geared towards profit rather than responsible reefing. small tanks are more prone to problems.

all i can say is please consider your audience. the nano craze that peaked my interest brought me to this site to learn. it also revitalized an interst i've had in salt water tanks since i was in high school; 22 years later - i've retired from the miltary and can settle into a hobby previously unattainable with constant moves and deployments.

if finances were no constraint; i'd be chatting with the best of them about my 125g tank. but that's just not in the cards right now. one of the best experiences with my nano so far is realizing this is a commitment. at 24g this is not cheap and i intend to make the best of it.

i've visited a few "reef" forums and decided reef sanctuary was the place for me to embrace the knowledge of others and would hope; make some friends along the way. i steered clear of the other sites because of the resounding theme of "noobs" being a burden with pesky questions. i ask you all, who didn't ask questions when they started?

this is the first thread i've read [here] so far that taints my impression [slightly]. there is definately a hierarchy among reef hobbyists. if us new guys were challenging that i'd understand some of the comments i've read in this thread. i could be wrong, but i haven't seen that in my short tenure.

that said, thanks to all that created, manage, and contribute to this site. i'm an avid truck enthusiast and the veteran on those boards. i understand the dedication, commitment and patience in making a web site successful and a home.

by the way - can someone explain the whole "karma" concept to me

 

[tony g]

Hi.
This is just the type of discussion I would like to get into. My very first question that I posted in this forum was "what is a nano tank", I got an answer but I really made me feel quite stupid as I never associated the Nano the way its ment to. Anyway, the reason I really didnt make the connection is because these small tanks are not promoted much in Australia and most LFS dont encorouge using them.At least here in Adelaide where i live anyway. Is the popularity of these tanks gaining in America because of the large amount of high density housing?
I think more people should be aware of the general rule of the smaller the tank the more likely the chance of problems and the harder these problems are to fix. Just think of how many hundreds of thousands of creatures are taken from the ocean only to die in some cube because someone wants to indulge a little. The use of these small tanks should be discouraged at least until we are able to meet the demand for these fish ourselves and stop taking them from the wild. Tony.

 

[KMP]

tony,

i also was wondering what a nano was and thanks to these guys/gals i eventually learned it was a tank 30g or less. the second part of your post [as you are aware] is one of the main points in this thread - responsible reefing. i agree with you and the rest, we shouldn't take for granted the fact these are live creatures and should be treated with care. regarding america and condensed housing - that may apply in some more populated areas, but i think it's more a case of...i want it now mentality and corporate America is catering to the market instead of trying to promote responsible reefing. these folks are hoping to get the word out to preserve the hobby and more importantly the critters we are bringing into our homes.

and how cool is this - i can chat with folks all over the world. i'm taking a liking to this place.

kenny

 

[mps9506]

tony,

i also was wondering what a nano was and thanks to these guys/gals i eventually learned it was a tank 30g or less. the second part of your post [as you are aware] is one of the main points in this thread - responsible reefing. i agree with you and the rest, we shouldn't take for granted the fact these are live creatures and should be treated with care. regarding america and condensed housing - that may apply in some more populated areas, but i think it's more a case of...i want it now mentality and corporate America is catering to the market instead of trying to promote responsible reefing. these folks are hoping to get the word out to preserve the hobby and more importantly the critters we are bringing into our homes.

and how cool is this - i can chat with folks all over the world. i'm taking a liking to this place.

kenny

 

[roadrunner1659]

Wow what a great thread! There is so much i could say about this thread!

 

[Witfull]

we are considering our audience it hope...we want people to be happy with the hobby and to help preserve it. if seeing a Nano got you interested into this great thing we call reefing, Great. we just want everyone to be successful and happy and that animals live. striving to help and teach is the goal. be it from answering questions all the way to thought provoking threads.

disagreements on persepective are openly encouraged. calm rational discussions are what makes everyone learn and see things differently than we may have before.

i have said it before, corperate america is pushing the issue to an extent. but it has always been there in the fresh water market. walk into any walmart/kmart/department store and you will see the boxed up all in one "starter" tank kit. for fresh water, its the worst stuff you can get...to see 10gallon tank kits that use a tiny bubble filter in the year 2006,,,come on~ but its the market that propegates this as well. the picture on the box shows it,,,so it must be true.

sometimes we may not agree on something, thats human nature, to talk it over so we can get to the big picture,,,thats progress!

 

[roadrunner1659]

I have a 26 gal tank and i guess that's a nano for most 30 gallons or less...anyway i got my tank almost 3 years ago when i graduated from high school. My step dad was my influence! I purchased my tank and almost everything i needed at the time with the money and space i had! I would love to have a large beautiful tank, in which you see here, but for the time being it's just not possible for me due to space!

Being that this was my first tank, i new that it would be difficult anyway i looked at it. I knew that i wanted a reef tank, but honestly knew nothing about it. This is were i began searching the interent for information. I came across a few internet forums and then i finally found RS were i now reside! I have learned a great deal of information, but i know that i still have a great deal of information to learn!

My tank has been an extremly slow process, but thats ok with me! I have had my share of ups and down, and i've learned from them!

Nano tanks are difficult and they must be managed carefully! My tank has gone through a complete comformation through the years. I started with a 26 gal AGA tank with a stand and standard hood lighting. My step dad gave me his old tetra tec HOB filter. I quickly upgraded my lighting to a current orbit 2x96 watt light. Alot better then the standard and it would allow me to keep softies and LPS corals. I also learned about protien skimmers, and soon bought my Aqua C Remora. After sometime had pasted a buddy gave me a canister filter, so out went the tetra tec, and soon after that i built and installed my sump/fuge! I have also purchased an Ro/Di unit!

My tank has come a long way over the past 3 years, but more so on the stabling and maintinance on my tank. My fish are my fish, i lost a few in the beginning, and now i have my special 3 and soon to add the fourth and final fish! I am also reading up on and trying my best to learn about LPS corals too, since i am now thinking about getting my first!

Keeping a tank is deffinetly no over-night project! It takes alot of time, money, and dedication! I started with a tank of 26 gals, i hope to continue in this hobby, into bigger and better tanks! I love and enjoy this hobby and i hope to become a lifer like some here are (witfull)!

 

[JasonL]

research, research, research. No matter what people will buy what they want and that will never change. The reef sanctuary is doing what it can in the battle of ignorance but really, isnt that what makes this sight so great. Uneducated people that buy these tiny tanks come to your webpage to get information on whether or not they can keep a shark and eel in a 12 gallon Nano cube. Its is our job to educate that person and send them away with new knowledge. Without those people, This hobby just would not be fun. We were all new at one point so look back and help these people from making the same mistakes that we did. Instead of telling them that they shouldnt have bought the Nano, tell them how to care for it. This webpage has taught me more than any of the hundreds of books I have read. Keep up the good work.

 

[Charlie97L]

^^ i totally agree.

it's really fun to watch how people appreciate it more when they know a little bit about it.

my roommates, who just viewed saltwater as "expensive and a PITA to keep" before i set mine up, went with me to the baltimore aquarium this weekend, and now that they had some working knowledge, really enjoyed it a lot more than the previous times they had gone. Their favorites were the two reef tanks, trying to find my fish in them. they stood at the one for about 20 minutes, trying to find the purple firefish in an 1000 gallon reef tank. hahaha. they did! it's just so great. and they kept pointing at fish they wanted me to put in my tank, which unfortunately, were mostly tangs... but the understood why I couldn't put them in, and accepted it, which I guess is one of the points of all this.

i think nanos can be great, the frustrating thing is when people ask what to do, the answer doesn't agree with their expectations, and then they go ahead and do the stupid thing anyway. that's irritating... but hopefully next time they'll listen. i learned the hard way from building cars to listen to the veterans on forums.

 

[bbatis]

WOW! I took the time to read every post in this thread. I will first tell you that I have never owned a SW tank in my life. I will also tell you that I have dreamed of having a reef tank for the last 6 years but have never made that a reality.

I have been doing my research on this subject like everything else that interests me. I understand that this is a serious hobby not to be taken lightly. One of the articles that I read from a very knowledgeble source stated this: There are as many opinions about reef keeping as there are aquarists. Isn't that the truth!

I'm not saying that any of the opinions said on this thread are not valid. That would be insulting people who have a lot more experience than I do at this hobby. But there seems to be one common denominator with all of the posts that I have read. That being someone just getting into the hobby who isn't not only prepared and who hasn't done their research, but is not in it for the long run. I think we can all agree on that.

With that said, I will say this: It doesn't really matter that much what tank size you start-off with. What matters is how much effort you are willing to put into this serious and beautiful hobby that we call reef-keeping.

The bottom line is, if you don't have the time that is required to succeed at this hobby, then you have no business attempting it. Not only is it a waste of one's money, but more importantly, a waste of God's creatures that we have been ordained to take care of.

Brian

 

[lcstorc]

Glad to hear you have been doing your research and have the commitment needed to make it work and work well.
Just remember the most important quote. "Nothing good ever happens quickly in a reef" and you will be well on your way. This hobby takes lots of patience, and for me self control since of course I want it all.

 

[mps9506]

WOW! I took the time to read every post in this thread. I will first tell you that I have never owned a SW tank in my life. I will also tell you that I have dreamed of having a reef tank for the last 6 years but have never made that a reality.

I have been doing my research on this subject like everything else that interests me. I understand that this is a serious hobby not to be taken lightly. One of the articles that I read from a very knowledgeble source stated this: There are as many opinions about reef keeping as there are aquarists. Isn't that the truth!

I'm not saying that any of the opinions said on this thread are not valid. That would be insulting people who have a lot more experience than I do at this hobby. But there seems to be one common denominator with all of the posts that I have read. That being someone just getting into the hobby who isn't not only prepared and who hasn't done their research, but is not in it for the long run. I think we can all agree on that.

With that said, I will say this: It doesn't really matter that much what tank size you start-off with. What matters is how much effort you are willing to put into this serious and beautiful hobby that we call reef-keeping.

The bottom line is, if you don't have the time that is required to succeed at this hobby, then you have no business attempting it. Not only is it a waste of one's money, but more importantly, a waste of God's creatures that we have been ordained to take care of.

Brian

You are absolutely correct.
I think the main concern of serious hobbiest with the nano tanks is that the industry is pushing for the SW tank to be an impulsive purchase (like the small goldfish kits) and make customers think it is an easy hobby. While it doesn't have to be a hard hobby, it is a hobby that requires proper research and dedication if you really care about the livestock that is going into your care (which not everyone does unfortunately).
This all gets into making sure the hobby maintains sustainable practices here and overseas. We must make sure that we promote a hobby that is ethical and sustainable and does not make a significant impact on the native habitats that our specimens come from. And IMO promoting quick impulsive purchases is not in the hobby's best interest for the long run.