Nano Craze

mps9506

mps9506

Well-Known Member
We have also noticed one of the latest trends in the industry, the Nano Reef or the Nano Marine tank. As someone that has seen some trends come and go, I'm slightly concerned about the notion that these Nano tanks are kind of "plug and play." When I was first started working in an LFS one thing that was ground into my mind was don't start off with a marine tank smaller than 20-55 gallons. Not so much from a profit standpoint, but because larger tanks are much easier to maintain.
I stopped selling nano cubes in my store hoenstly because the only people that bought them ended up back in my store every week with one problem after another, if it wasn't a leak from a jbj tank, it was cyano, or hair algae etc. The "all in one" filtration obviously wasn't suffcient to handle 2 clowns, a royal gramma and a damsel, or whatever combination of fish they ended up with. Then the single PC light over the top wasn't enough to support anything more than some mushrooms. Now I have seen new nano tanks from Current, basically promoting a plug and play reef, you can even get a 150watt hqi setup for serious coral growth.
What concerns me is that these tanks are marketed as a all in one solution, easy to setup easy to keep. How many folks (esp. the begining aquarist) are willing to put in the time and money involved in maintaining a reef tank in 6-24 gallons of water?
Why isn't the industry trend toward getting people started in a more appropriate sized reef tank such as a 40-60 gallon tank?
 
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billyr98

Well-Known Member
i agree with ya mps9506.. very good points... 90g reef would be the ideal size for someone to start with... but you can get away with a 55 for a starter.. The one thing no new person in the hobby wants, is algae.. And you will get it a lot faster in a small nano!
 
Witfull

Witfull

Well-Known Member
Nanos~the latest "IN" thing.

in this instant gratification world, many people want what they want, when they want it. unfortunately this doesnt happen in this hobby. lets step back a few years ago, remember the Nemo demonstration on the Today show? Tetra Corp showed how easy it is...take a 3gallon plactic tank, drop a few magic chemicals in, add 3 hippo tangs, 4 perculas and you have a tank.

they are being sold as "easier than falling off a log". gee, i remember a few years ago when Nanos were harder to keep, an experiment of the dedicated hobbyist. the thought of the work needed, made some shiver and shake their heads thinking,,,not me!

i think alot of the blame is on Corperate America here, spend any time on the Web shopping, and you will see Nanos with the most beautiful corals and fish in them. alot of us that have been around look at the equipment these come with and know its sub-par. in order to fix them, you have to start cutting and adding things, and most of the time, still have problems.

so how do we get the word to the Masses? to get the manufacturers to stop making these things. thats the $64,000 question. as long as they are purchased, they will be made.

mike a applaud you for not selling them, LFS, please take some responsibility. stress the difficulties with care for these. give people that want to be part of this hobby a fighting chance of success.

to consumers, research, research, and read. you owe it to yourself and the animals to know how to care for them. you want to succeed.

this is a great hobby, but commercialism will hurt us all.



Rant Complete

now lets talk about standard nano packages, and what is best to keep in them for the average hobbyist.

ill start with anything 12g and under. live rock and a gobie/shrimp pair. or one pseudochromis/dottyback. or one PJ/bangaii cardinal.
 
mps9506

mps9506

Well-Known Member
Witfull said:
Rant Complete

now lets talk about standard nano packages, and what is best to keep in them for the average hobbyist.

ill start with anything 12g and under. live rock and a gobie/shrimp pair. or one pseudochromis/dottyback. or one PJ/bangaii cardinal.
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The "nano" gobies are very good additions. However I know most stores in my area hate selling them. Neon gobies etc are great for small aquariums, but they are hard to keep in the traditional setups in stores because they fit in the overflows or swim between dividers.
Pistol shrimp goby combo's are one of the cooolest things to watch. Much more intetesting in my opinion than a clownfish and anemone combo.
 
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dobejazz

Well-Known Member
I agree with you to a point (not trying to be difficult) but a 24g JBJ is what got me started in the hobby a year ago and I have since added a 5.5g nano and a 95g tank and am doing my best to learn and succeed in this hobby. I have seen plenty of posts here and on other boards from people just starting out with larger tanks and still running into problems. Many times it is user fault rather than the product when things don't go well in reef. :) no matter what size tank they start out with
 
ReefLady

ReefLady

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I agree that a nano tank can be done (and done very well), but I would have to agree that it is much more of a "difficult" enviroment to maintain - in that it requires more careful watching and maintenance. There's definitely a much higher margin for error. Now, if you're aware of that, and realize it's (space) limitations, it can be a very cool and beautiful environment.

Having had almost every tank size from a 10g to a 180g tank/300g system, I would have to say that our current tank (180g) is the "easiest" tank we've ever had. Is that because my level of expertise has increased over the years? Sure...but this is also a tank that pretty much runs itself. I don't think you could ever say that about a small tank.

I don't think I'd have as much of an issue with LFS's pushing smaller tanks (they do introduce people to the marine environment at a lower cost level), but I wish they'd be up front about what *should* go in them. If their promos included 8-10 "suggested small tank enviroments" - maybe people would understand up front that this is a tank for one small fish, and a couple inverts. The LFS should also make the buyer aware of inherent small tank "issues" (water topoff, temp swings, etc.). Of course, that makes the assumption that the consumer will actually listen to the reponsible LFS owner - definitely not always the case.
 
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Charlie97L

Well-Known Member
ditto to the nano craze.

i see a lot of people getting these, and i'm on NR.com quite a bit too, and it's disturbing to see people putting anemones and clams under PCs, and 2 clowns and 2 gobies in a 12 gallon.

unfortunately, i think those people don't understand that these are animals. especially coral. "wow look at that plant!" fish aren't viewed the same way as dogs or cats are by the general public. "you have a pet shrimp? and a pet clam? what are you, a werido?" etc.

especially people who've grown up with goldfish. if it died, you get a new one, no biggie. so they translate, well fish don't really live more thatn 6-12 months anyway, so if my Nano tank crashes or my anemone/clown/clam dies, i'll just get a new one, no biggie.

and they wonder why the prices are higher. it's because they are rarer. i've been in petco a bunch of times getting dog treats for my sister's puppy, and heard people asking why "nemo" was 19.99 for one, when goldfish are .50 each. and then walking away thinking the stores are just jacking prices because of the movie.

it's frustrating, but my 5 roommates and many of my friends all now realize the complexity and care these creatures require, and how attached you can get to them. so while we can't change the whole world, we just have to do our best to educate people on these topics.
 
Rougiem

Rougiem

Ichthy Inquisitor
PREMIUM
Dragon Wrasse said:
Very nice thread.....good read and valid points.....Thanks to all.
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Ditto Dragon and everyone else....Not much to add :thumbup:

I will use one of Craig's though: "Dilution is the solution to pollution" :columbo:

Cheers!
 
Witfull

Witfull

Well-Known Member
although this looks like a decent light fixture, i still feel what is pictured to be wrong. a Haddonii carpet anemone in a small Nano.

l_k-2%20viper%20003resizetext.jpg


then they have this picture,,,the skimmer is bigger than the tank,,,but if you look close,,,its not working.

l_k-2%20viper%20001resizetext.jpg
 
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Charlie97L

Well-Known Member
yeah, there's no accounting for what people will do... that is the 24 gallon cube... but still.

i'll have updated pics of my nano at lunch! :) but iiiii'm doing it right. haha.
 
Witfull

Witfull

Well-Known Member
i dont want this thread to offend Nano keepers,,,but to let them know the limitations. ive seen some stunning nanos,,,tighaboy for one, but the knowledge and "eye" have to be there.

Kelli, im not saying success cant be had for beginners,,,but if you looked at the average,,,odds are against success with a smaller tank. granted a few people may feel offended initially by this thread, "hey i have a nano and its great you all are idiots", but many here are looking for help beyond the LFS, they want to be part of this world,,,,and together we can help them.

this hobby has many opinions, I, personally love hearing all sides. i do voice mine,,,but i will let any one stand on the soapbox and applaud them for speaking up ansd sharing theirs,,,this his how we learn......


so,,,back to proper stocking of nanos...i pictured a tank,,,thoughts,,what would be best?
 
Cougra

Cougra

Well-Known Member
I too have noticed that there is a growing trend to having as small a tank as possible. The worst case I have seen online was someone using a mason jar (about two cups worth of water) to keep as a "pico reef" with a few zoanthids and mushrooms in it to keep on his desk at work.

There are a lot of issues to overcome when setting up such a small tank, mainly proper filtration, skimming and lighting for the animals that people want to keep in there. It's well known that anemones and clams don't live very long/well under anything but extremely intense lighting (AKA MH) and excellent water quality. I know that some people have even put MH lighting over their nano reefs but I can't imagine how they can keep the temperature stable in such a small body of water when people with much larger tanks have a hard time keep a stable temperature in their tanks with similar lighting.

What concerns me is that these tanks are marketed as a all in one solution, easy to setup easy to keep. How many folks (esp. the begining aquarist) are willing to put in the time and money involved in maintaining a reef tank in 6-24 gallons of water?
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I find that more and more people are more concerned about the "set it and forget it" mentality when it comes to everything in their lives that they tend to forget that these are live animals that we are holding captive. People are amazed when they realise how much work and knowledge has to go into this hobby to get anything worth while out of it.
Why isn't the industry trend toward getting people started in a more appropriate sized reef tank such as a 40-60 gallon tank?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I feel that a lot of LFS's (not all) are trying to push these setups to get people into the hobby and when things start to go wrong then they push for the larger tanks, thus more money since people are buying two or three times before they get something they are comfortable with. They get more money if they can sell the same person two or three setups rather then just selling the one setup. Since this hobby has a large turn around rate (people rarely stay in it for more then 5 years.) the industry tries to get as much money out of everyone during that short time frame. People who buy a good system first don't contribute very much to the industries profit margins.
 
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Charlie97L

Well-Known Member
Yes, Wit, I agree, I'm not trying to offend nanos! I'm about to join the ranks, but I'm well aware of the work involved, and I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to make the nano as automated as possible... that's not to say i won't be fooling around with it a lot, I just like all the technical goodies.

I think another issue is that the nanos tend to draw in the younger hobbyists who's patience and attention spans may not be developed (at least initially, i know of several spectacular reefers that are teenagers in my local club) to the point this hobby requires. they just don't understand that it takes 3-4 weeks or longer before you can put fish in.

I akin nanos to a car phenomenon I witnessed a few years ago, which was (not to get too technical) adding a turbocharger to a motor that wasn't built to take it, without making the motor stronger first. You spend wayyy less money just throwing it on there, but when the motor dies, it often takes the turbo with it, then not only do you have to buy a new motor, but a new turbo as well, and now you're scared, so you beef it up too, you end up spending 3x what it would have cost to just beef up the motor initially.

I mean, not to be elistist, but reefing is an expensive hobby. It's misleading to say that you can get into even a nano cheaply... yet the companies do it. I like nanotuners.com because the offer nano "packages" and then you REALLY see how $$$ it can be to set up even a 12 gallon with all the extra equipment/mods needed to make it effective for reefing. I wanted a SW tank badly in college, but I just did FW to tide me over. It was cool, but not as cool as SW.

I'm glad when new reefers come here, and ask questions, and then actually listen to what the more experienced people have to say. I know the experienced people here have been a huge help to me so far.
 
Gina

Gina

Moderator
RS STAFF
Our LFS has a couple of these nano tanks set up as soon as you walk into the door. I have to admit, they caught my attention. They are beautiful to look at.
I changed my mind about having one real quick when I did a little research on how to keep one. Too small an area where things can go wrong real quick.
I applaud people who have stunning nanos and keep em that way!
People just need to be informed that what they can keep in one is limited and if they are looking to keep alot of fish and corals they should probably look into a bigger tank.

But, here's the question.....what should the LFS do if the customer insist on getting one even though the employee of the store knows they don't know what they are getting in to?
 
mps9506

mps9506

Well-Known Member
Gina said:
But, here's the question.....what should the LFS do if the customer insist on getting one even though the employee of the store knows they don't know what they are getting in to?
Click to expand...

Pretty simple.. Tell em what they are getting into. Some folks will listen and some folks won't. Goes with the territory :)
 
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