My husband is a piece of work (long)

BarbMazz

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
AQTCJAK said:
I will do what I can first I need to see what I can do about a pump that will handle the head space plus the drainage could be a tricky deal but I am sure I can work something out
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Okay, I don't understand this too much, but these are the measurements we came up with:

starting from basement, returning up to display tank upstairs

1. 5ft verticle, then a 90d turn
2. 36in horizontal, then a 90d turn
3. 12in verticle, then a 90d turn
4. 4ft horizontal, then a 90d turn
5. 3ft vertical, which is at the return on the bottom of the display tank

The reason for the 90 turns is to take the piping around under finished areas.

My husband asks if the clear flexible hosing would be appropriate to use in this application... pros and cons.

I would also want a control valve of some sort on the return to the display to control flow, if possible and if needed.

I feel as though my head may explode because this is so different from what I was becoming comfortable with!
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
It is definitely a big project. I wish I was better at the plumbing stuff.
I really liked your idea of keeping the fuge separate though. You want slow flow through the fuge and high flow through the sump. This can be difficult to balance. Maybe it won't work since like I said I am bad a the plumbing stuff but if someone can figure out the logistics I think it is a good idea. Then you get raw water into and out of the fuge. That's basically what I have but the fuge feeds into the return area of the sump since they are next to each other. I am not going down a floor though so mine was a lot easier to do.
 
tbittner

tbittner

Well-Known Member
Going down a floor really doesn't change a thing. You just calculate your head pressure, like you did for the plan of having the sump in the stand, and buy a pump that meets your requirements. It really doesn't make it more complex. :)(assuming you can get to the areas you want to run the pipe through easily :) )
 
BarbMazz

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
lcstorc said:
It is definitely a big project. I wish I was better at the plumbing stuff.
I really liked your idea of keeping the fuge separate though. You want slow flow through the fuge and high flow through the sump. This can be difficult to balance. Maybe it won't work since like I said I am bad a the plumbing stuff but if someone can figure out the logistics I think it is a good idea. Then you get raw water into and out of the fuge. That's basically what I have but the fuge feeds into the return area of the sump since they are next to each other. I am not going down a floor though so mine was a lot easier to do.
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I do want to keep my fuge separate. In my original scheme I was going to feed the fuge with raw water, it just would've all been in one tank. I don't see why it wouldn't work, plumbing-wise, because I would have an overflow dedicated to the fuge, and a return dedicated to the fuge. Like a closed loop, just not one drilled into the DT.

Then, the drilled overflow in the tank is the one that would go to the basement into the sump, be skimmed, then returned with either an external or internal pump.

Two completely separate circulation systems; one for the fuge, and then one for the sump/skimmer/kalk/Ca/temperature/topoff, etc etc.

If anyone knows reasons why this wouldn't work please let me know, ok?
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
wouldnt the 65 make a nice sump? wouldnt a 175 make a nice display?(DEVIL MADE ME SAY IT!!!!)
The amount going thru the fuge is more critical than the sump, I prefer cleaner water, post skimmer for my fuge as this can become a detritus trap pretty quick, so a separate pump from skimmer area to fuge, overflow from fuge to sump,overflow from display to sump, two return pumps from sump to display in case one dies. And dont forget the sump sock(s) when designing the system they work awesome. Steve
 
D

dobejazz

Well-Known Member
I really like having my sump in the basement below the tank :)

and it only required a 4" hole in the hardwood floor
 
S

Scouter Steve

Active Member
bluespotjawfish said:
Sounds like a fun project (of course as it is you and not me doing it)!

Why not have some of your tank water drain to your fuge and the rest drain to the sump, then have your fuge drain to the sump, then one pump to get it all back up? Maybe someone already suggested that and I missed it.
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This is the only sensible way to do this. If you try it seperate O/F and return pump for your fuge, you will have to allow for drain down with a power outage losing valuable volume. Running as Bluespot suggests you can use full volume and do not have another pump to heat you up or maintain. To get the most of pod production have the drain from the fuge aimed at the first baffle after your skimmer.
 
B

boozeman

Well-Known Member
wow, RS is down for a few hrs and bam!! a two page thread develops.
Barb this is your chance to do a large display fuge(thing second tank) in the basement without hubby going nuts about it....im thinking 100-125 gal sump should do :D
a nice sequence pump should take care of the return and some flex pvc would eliminate most of those elbows....party on !!!
 
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dobejazz

Well-Known Member
boozeman said:
wow, RS is down for a few hrs and bam!! a two page thread develops.
Barb this is your chance to do a large display fuge(thing second tank) in the basement without hubby going nuts about it....im thinking 100-125 gal sump should do :D
a nice sequence pump should take care of the return and some flex pvc would eliminate most of those elbows....party on !!!
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I have a Dart on my return but was told a pressure rated pump would be a better choice ?
 
A

AnimeFan2

Member
Either way, if you keep the fuge below the tank or in the basement it will work. Fuge under the tank will require 1 more pump which means it will cost more to run and create heat even with a small pump. Fuge in basement like was said before just return it after the skimmer. Have you even considered a downdraft skimmer (or a similar type), that could eliminate a skimmer pump. Use of spa flex tubing or multiple 45's would minimize head loss. Good luck sounds like fun to me, enjoy and take lots of pics.
 
D

dobejazz

Well-Known Member
tbittner

tbittner

Well-Known Member
No, it's not a pressure rated pump but that is just a term, imo. We measure the height that we need to pump the water, include in the elbows and 45's, to get a calculated head pressure. Then simply look at the charts (I haven't found a manufactorer yet that didn't provide them) and buy the appropriate pump. Pressure rated doesn't really mean much to us, and isn't required, unless we are pumping water up a LONG ways. Like if you were pumping water up four floors or more, then it's time to start to look at pressure rated pumps.

When you look at the charts in that link, look closely at the numbers on the left side. The graphs look kind of similar unless you notice the differences in head pressure that the pump is capable of overcoming.
 
D

dobejazz

Well-Known Member
tbittner said:
No, it's not a pressure rated pump but that is just a term, imo. We measure the height that we need to pump the water, include in the elbows and 45's, to get a calculated head pressure. Then simply look at the charts (I haven't found a manufactorer yet that didn't provide them) and buy the appropriate pump. Pressure rated doesn't really mean much to us, and isn't required, unless we are pumping water up a LONG ways. Like if you were pumping water up four floors or more, then it's time to start to look at pressure rated pumps.

When you look at the charts in that link, look closely at the numbers on the left side. The graphs look kind of similar unless you notice the differences in head pressure that the pump is capable of overcoming.
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Thanks for the info :)
 
tbittner

tbittner

Well-Known Member
Head pressure refers to the weight of the water plus the friction/back flow caused by going through not straight pipe. For instance, a 1" pipe that is 16 feet long will hold 107 pounds of water.

(diameter X diameter X .7854 X height X pounds per gallon)

1 * 1 * .7854 = .7854
.7854 * 16 = 12.5664 gallons
12.5664 * 8.5 = 106.8144 pounds (assuming a gallon of saltwater at 1.0265 sg weighs 8 1/2 pounds per gallon)

That is a LOT of weight for a little pump to be pushing around. It ALSO is a good reminder that pipes run at these kind of lengths should be fastened to a stud with clamps to help support the weight and prevent bowing, especially for horizontal runs of any length.

Ok, so maybe this post is of interest only to me. :D
 
BarbMazz

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
bluespotjawfish said:
Sounds like a fun project (of course as it is you and not me doing it)!

Why not have some of your tank water drain to your fuge and the rest drain to the sump, then have your fuge drain to the sump, then one pump to get it all back up? Maybe someone already suggested that and I missed it.
Click to expand...

Let me re-state this to be sure I understand how this would work:

1. water flows down from display, there is an elbow and valve of some sort to divert water to the fuge below the display. The remainder of the water continues down to the sump in the basement.

2. there is an overflow in the fuge that will take water down to the sump in the basement.

3. All water is skimmed in the sump in the basement, which is then pumped back upstairs to the display tank.

Is this the basic idea of what you mean, Lorraine?
 
BarbMazz

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
tbittner said:
Head pressure refers to the weight of the water plus the friction/back flow caused by going through not straight pipe. For instance, a 1" pipe that is 16 feet long will hold 107 pounds of water.

(diameter X diameter X .7854 X height X pounds per gallon)

1 * 1 * .7854 = .7854
.7854 * 16 = 12.5664 gallons
12.5664 * 8.5 = 106.8144 pounds (assuming a gallon of saltwater at 1.0265 sg weighs 8 1/2 pounds per gallon)

That is a LOT of weight for a little pump to be pushing around. It ALSO is a good reminder that pipes run at these kind of lengths should be fastened to a stud with clamps to help support the weight and prevent bowing, especially for horizontal runs of any length.

Ok, so maybe this post is of interest only to me. :D
Click to expand...

LOL, no this is helpful, if only for me to think that the pipes need to be fastened to prevent bowing.

John has been busy googling about types of pipe... he seems to fixate on flexible PVC at the moment. I sure hope this doesn't become HIS hobby! :)
 
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