Meaning of browned sps ?

AG1

Member
What major changes have you done lately?

Did you just recently replace/upgrade bulbs or fixture?

It's possible they are getting more light and they are "self regulating" their symbiotic algae to compensate for more light energy entering their cells.

How long have they been getting lighter in color?

Are you sure about your NO3 levels?

Any other "stressor" in the system that you can think of? Temp spikes, SG swings anything that would introduce wide-spread stress to the tank.

I did not make any changes to the system.I upgraded the fixture but they were the same like this before , with my old fixture.

They change their color just in about 2 - 3 weeks after I purchase them and then remain the same color.But they are gorwing really fast.

I am sure about the No3 levels because I checked with 3 different test kits.

Even though I feed very heavy I can not increase the nitrate.Maybe it is due to my deep sand bad which is 7-8cm or more in some parts of the tank.It is the mixture of the sand came with the tank + 10kg live sand.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
7-8cm isn't a DSB in my eyes anyway... for DSB I like to see a min of 11cm and have it get deeper if possible. Shallow (in my thoughts) is from 0cm -4cm, Deep is 11cm and up. No man's land (IMHO) is between4cm - 10cm. To deep for SSB but not deep enough for DSB.

I'm inclined to think it's water parameter but I don't have anything to suggest. Hopefully someone will come through that has some insight and can offer more advice.

You say you "upgraded" your fixture... does that mean it's a completely new fixture (ie new ballast, reflectors etc)? The new fixture could be more powerful and/or more efficient and getting more light energy into the tank. That's just a wild guess at best.
 

reeferman

Well-Known Member
thats what i thought too,BigAl.in the past ive had sps get a "suntan" when i changed out bulbs[mh then].also, if you are adding that much food/additives every day then it could be a trace element buildup that would not show up in your tests.keep in mind,natural reefs are very nutrient depleted environments,very clean water.how are your softies doing?they seem to thrive in nutrient rich water[lagoons]where as sps do not.it could be a water quality issue even without nitrates.but i have to agree with BigAl,they all look pretty good to me.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
They all look pretty good to me too! The digitata has nice white growth tips, and the Milli has a nice encrusting base. I can't explain the color changes, but if they're growing well they must be healthy. Maybe it is some trace element that is low or high. "growing really fast" is a good sign. I would say just enjoy them and maybe the color will return at some time. They're all beautiful corals!
 

AG1

Member
thank you guys , I do weekly water changes and also add Grotech Coral A ,B , C trace elements by dosing pump so maybe the problem is too much trace elements as you mentioned.I will stop dosing the Trace elements and just do weekly water changes and inform the results after about 2 weeks in here again.Anyway, if you guys have better advices I trust you and will definitely follow your advices.
 

dankent

Member
Instead of stopping completely, you may want to just cut it back ... like 3/4 1/2 1/4 over a few weeks .. that way if you notice something it wont be much of a swing to recover from ... Sorry i wasnt more help .. but your running things in your tank that i cannot .... hehe so i dont know to be honest.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
For what it's worth I don't any any trace elements - just water changes, and a Ca & Alk additive.
 

reeferman

Well-Known Member
same here.water changes usually replenish the trace minerals.i dose a&b everyday and twice a week i add turbo calcium and reef builder[different days]i feed pellets once everyday and rods food twice a week.thats it.but like Terry said,they look like they are growing very well and thats the true sign of health.unhealthy corals just dont grow like that.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
oh yeah,i read that you were trying to get your nitrates up.that is never a good idea!

I've a few things that there have been some recent findings that SPS actually do better with low levels of nitrates, rather than zero. That may be why AG1 was wanting to have some. Things change constantly in this hobby and there are always a ton of contradicting opinions! :)
 

reeferman

Well-Known Member
from Advanced Aquarists Online Magazine
SPS corals require different water parameters than soft corals do, for their survival, and especially for their maximum growth. They prefer to have close to zero measureable Nitrates, because these Nitrates can inhibit the building of their skeleton. in other words, the calcification of their skeleton can be slowed or stopped by higher levels of Nitrates in the system. So it's very important that both nitrates and phosphates be zero or as close to zero as possible.With reduction of nitrates/phosphates SPS corals have been reported to increase in color pigmentation. High nitrates
anything detectable on a standard hobby test kit will cause some form of colour change. Usually browning due to the rapid reproduction in Zooxanthellae.
Elevated trace elements
over dosing with these besides causing algae blooms will again cause a increase in Zooxanthellae production.
Nitrate levels in aquariums are much higher than those in the ocean. The average nitrate levels of the ocean is 0.1 ppm at depths up to 50 meters, and 2.5 ppm and higher in deeper regions. But in the South Pacific reefs where we get most of the creatures we want to keep, nitrate levels average around 25 ppb (that’s parts per billion) which is equivalent to 0.025 ppm. So here’s the first problem: a typical hobby nitrate test kit can only go down to about 1.0 ppm, which is a nitrate level 40 times higher than what we’re shooting for. If you test for nitrates and the test vial looks crystal clear and colorless, your nitrate level could still be a hundred times higher than the ocean levels.Surprisingly, reef tanks and most corals need nitrates to survive. The zooxanthellae present in all photosynthetic corals are algae. They need nitrates to grow. But when nitrate levels are too high, it causes an explosion of the zooxanthellae population within the host coral and in turn, actually decreases the rate of growth of the coral. This begins to occur in some SPS corals when nitrate levels reach a low 0.5 – 0.7 ppm. LPS and many soft corals can tolerate 3-5 times this concentration with no ill effect. At 5.0 ppm and higher, nitrates become poison to many SPS corals. To make matters worse, high nitrates cause runaway film algae which covers the skeleton and polyps of these corals, exacerbating the problem.Feeding corals is more prone to nitrate production than feeding fish. Target feeding helps concentrate foods at the coral, but most of it winds up in the water column to decompose. The worst feeding technique is to dump filter feeding foods directly into the tank. A very small percentage may arrive at a polyp, and the rest just fouls the tank. But PLEASE- don’t stop feeding your corals for fear of elevated nitrates. There is no additive in the world like food to give your corals extended polyps, better coloration, and an overall healthy appearance. You need to balance nitrates from food with effective ways to remove it.
i know things are changing in the hobby everyday,but i would think the vast majority of us would never do anything to raise nitrates in our systems,just too slippery of a slope!
i would venture to say that you are adding a LOT of 'stuff" to the water and it could be a water quality issue even without nitrates or phosphates.i know thats how we measure it but that is not the only tell tale sign of bad water quality.it seems to me that you would have concentrations of these far greatter than nsw.to be as close to nsw as we can is what we should all be striving for.but with all that said,i still think those sps pictured looked real good to me.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
AG1 - based on the above (even though some recent opinions are that a low level of NO3 may be good for SPS), I would not try to raise your nitrates. If they're 0 be happy with that! Stay with the most common opinion that 0 nitrates are best for SPS.

Since your nitrates appear be 0 the browning may be coming from all of those coral additives that you're adding. From the above:

"High nitrates anything detectable on a standard hobby test kit will cause some form of colour change. Usually browning due to the rapid reproduction in Zooxanthellae.
Elevated trace elements over dosing with these besides causing algae blooms will again cause a increase in Zooxanthellae production."


Your color changes may be due to elevated trace elements, vitamins, amino acids, etc. that you are adding:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/774015-post7.html

Maybe that's the problem?
 

reeferman

Well-Known Member
+1 Terry,sorry for the long read but thats the point i was trying to make about the excess of nutrients maybe being the cause,but if they are growing well,let it be!
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
gareefman - I'd read the article previously - I get an email notice when the Advanced Aquarists online releases new ones. I have a feeling AG1 is just adding too many coral additives and should cut back on those to see if his colors come back. I agree that wanting to increase nitrates isn't the best thing to try.
 

reeferman

Well-Known Member
cool,i figured you did.not for a minute did i think otherwise,your tank and knowledge is way too nice and vast to not know that.but i did read a lot of compelling arguments to what you were saying.maybe a little longer research needed on my part.just saw everything that AG1 was adding and imo thought it was overkill.as with a lot of our pets,we can love them too much.but again AG1, ive said it 4 or 5 times,them sps look darn good.just cut back a little and see what happens
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
Shoot - I know very little! I was just passing on some things I'd read about low nitrates and SPS, as it was news to me, and goes against the overwhelming opinion that zero NO3 is best.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
Not being modest, being honest! After 3+ years of reading posts and almost 3 of having a tank I had to learn something in that amount of time or I'd have to be classified as brain dead LOL!
 
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