LIGHTING... in depth discussion

Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
i would like to start a discussion/debate on Lighting itself. A few things to think about here would be.
- what type of lighting is available for our hobby?
- what do these types have over each other for there use?


--Everyone Pls. Note: this is Not to lead to any flaming or who is smarter than who. This is a collective of information across the minds. Feel free to add Anything to this that you deem nessesary to post on this subject matter. I will do my best to keep up with it and stay on track.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
I would like to add that, yes i know that there has already been a Lighting discussion, But it's last posted date was in '09. LOTS of things have changed in technologies and i feel a fresh start for the newer readers would be of great help. Esp. knowing there is a TON more data that has been collected even pertaining to specific coral needs.
 
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DaveK

Well-Known Member
I'd say that the conventional lighting like VHO, PC, T5, and MH have been talked about so much and that the technology is so well know, that there really isn't too much new to add.

In areas like LED lighting, which is rapidly evolving, I can see where the amount of new information is growing so fast that it's worth talking about. Also, I'd like to hear about any other forms of lighting. We are getting to the point where LED lighting is still not too common, but there are several manufacturers out there that are making products that really give good light for a reef. In addition many of these come with control systems that can be used with a controller to give all sorts of various lighting effects. I suspect that the next reef lighting system I get will be LED.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
Like i mentioned though there's lots of new people to the forum daily. Most just stepped into 0 knowledge on this matter and would like to know the dif. on them all.
I intend on getting into par, pur, lux, lumens, nanometers (most dont know it), Kelvin vs. nm values and why they have no relative conversion to ea. other.
Also i intend to drag some posts on another forum i'm on that gets into extreemly broken down aspects of light itself and how dif. nm ranges affect corals and even GHA.
I have a ton of spectrographs from well known sources/designers to add for clarification as well.
I'm not particularly keen on LEDs in terms of design, but i do understand the spec sheets on them to make an educated assumption on how well they will perform vs. other types of lighting.

On that note i'll add one type of lighting to yours: Plasma
 
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DaveK

Well-Known Member
I just sort of thinking here...

You might be better off with a couple threads on lighting or maybe even your own web site. It's true, RS does get people at all levels of experience. Now someone just starting out usually wants to know "what type of lighting should I get for my tank?" These people really don't want to learn about "...par, pur, lux, lumens, nanometers (most dont know it), Kelvin vs. nm values...". They just want some decent lighting that will work well for them. With the equipment available today, now, that usually comes down to T5 or MH with T5. Few people are going to buy VHO, or PC lighting today, even though it might work as well.


Now someone more advanced might be very much interested in those subjects, especially when it comes down to bulb selections. For most people, once they have the lighting they want, they are not going to casually upgrade it. For example, I have 250w MHs and PC actinics over my 125 gal ref. Unless I'm going to replace everything, my choices come down to bulb selection. I just can't see replacing the fixture anytime soon.

Also, with bulbs costing about $25 and UP for PC, and T5 bulbs and about $50 for MH bulbs, I'm not going to replace those either unless they go bad. Even if a new bulb is better, I'll get them the next time around.

At the really high end of the hobby are people growing corals and such to sell or trade. They are the people going to be interested in everything, because a modest increase in growth means the corals are ready for sale or trade much sooner.

As a note - There is a famous thread here and on other reef forums about algae scrubbing. Here it's now almost 1500 of posts long. Few people want to go through it all, even though there is lots of information on it.
 
BigAl07

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
No need to give up or get frustrated. If you want to devote time and effort to this thread then by all means go for it. Some will find it useful... some wont even look and some might find it PRICELESS! DO like Tiger says, "Go for it!"
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
i see i'm not the only one changing up my avatar pic sneeky sneeky!
TY BigAl, i forgot to post under the first part of the thread that also "thread jacking" and "thread killing" was not part of the discussion as well.

ONWARD! so how many people understand What PAR is and why its such a general shotgun pattern-guess on what your corals would want?
So whats up with PUR? is it any better to test for PUR over PAR?
 
jpsika08

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
Just on my own experience here is what I think of the former and new light technologies,

1. Metal Halides really intense lightning which have more than proven to work,
PROS,
Lots of lights
Different Kelvin types to choose from
More than proven that they work
All corals will grow under them.

CONS
Power eaters
Heat transfer
Bulb change every 6 to 12 months.
Space to hold ballast.

2. VHO/HO Lights, used for main or supplemental lightning, you can choose from a variety of colors.
PROS
Cheap to maintain
Proven to work
All corals will grow under them, depends on tank height or coral/clam position.

CONS
Maintenance, as you have to change bulbs each 6 to 12 months.
Power consumption (Not as high as MH's)
Heat transfer (Not as much as MH's)

3. LED Lightning, new technology offered by everyone now, but few manufactures can be trusted to really put out what they offer.
PROS
Low power consumption
No heat transfer.
Dimmable (Not all fixtures)
Nature Effects, as thunderstorms and clouds passing by (Not all fixtures)
Many research and development being invested in this area right now.
Upgradable (Not all fixtures)
Require less space as no ballast needed.
LED last 50,000 hours (at 8 hours per day, they last 17 years)

CONS
Expensive
Still haven't proven themselves, though, many successful coral stories around.

As I see it, many MH, VHO/HO and PC manufacturers are beginning to turn their interest to LED's I think that any of them who aren't most probably will be out of business in the short term (ex. IceCap).
Still, LED technology is really expensive, at least the fixtures that really have proven to work, and the return of investment can take years over common or former lights.
Nevertheless, with so much research and development around LED and so many consumers beginning to acquire them, it's not that far when we see a price drop on these.

As stated above, these lights mentioned above are from my own experience and not through others comments.

Please feel free to correct me in any way :)
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
Nice Juan!

you mentioned dimmable on the leds. but did anyone know there are dimmable ballasts for T5 HO's? i just found this out a week ago After i purchased another ballast for my system.

As for icecap, that was a sad day when i read they sold out. they made some of what was the better of lighting systems around and at a good price!

What i Have noticed on LEDs so far from reading, they only have a limited type of color spectrum. yes, 10K has three peaks to it for the white balance effect, But i havent found anything hitting the 650-700nm range that is what a all the corals utilize at shalow depths such as on the figi islands. those corals (SPS's) actually are out of water for hours during low tide.

What some people dont know is that as you get deeper in water the upper spectrum is dissipated to 0. thats why the blueish hue is most present to the naked eye deeper under water. thus where actinic ranges (420-460) come into play for our lighting. Now leds say from Orphek have now made there own pure 403nm diode, the market is going to try to catch up with them as most leds only hit the 420 range substantially.

here is the spectro. on there new diode: The Generation 2 Power LED Diode Spectrograph - 3reef Forums

the only thing LEDs havent been trying to produce is the upper red range. yes there's "red" leds, but they dont do substantial work as there specs are scattery like a Kelvin rated bulb. i truely believe the red range is very important in the shallow water corals i mentioned about above.
 
jpsika08

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
Great explanation Jackalope,
I have been looking at the red LEDS too, and even that the AI's don't have them I'm considering DIY small 6 inch RED XRC LED lights to place them parallel, but I think this would serve only for coloring the water and maybe a little high noon effect, what do you think?
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
jpsika08 said:
Great explanation Jackalope,
I have been looking at the red LEDS too, and even that the AI's don't have them I'm considering DIY small 6 inch RED XRC LED lights to place them parallel, but I think this would serve only for coloring the water and maybe a little high noon effect, what do you think?
Click to expand...

idk. im going to dig around in a bit and look for some graphs on what the red crees Actually do in the nm department.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

Member
found a CREE document showing the light range they all produce. None of which hit below 460. nor do any hit the 700 range to do anything.

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlamp7090xr-e.pdf

Orphek, from what i can tell is Not going to be selling there 403's independantly. they will be exclusive for there product. good for them.

just for an example of what i am reffering to as the red range, i'll post the link for Coral Wave T5HO's from Wave-point. i Truely believe red is needed badly for the shallow corals. maybe this is why my montipora has a
3/16" growth ring all the time at 55 par.

http://wave-point.com/images/LampMain2_enlarge.jpg

i could be completely wrong, but par of 55 on this coral, it should be just sitting there doing nothing you would think. thats why i also believe that par is a shot-gun approach on what color spec. corals req. to actually grow. Instead of just blasting every part of the spectrum and wasting Electricity? i mean honestly lots of people on this forrum are all about "saving on the electric bill" and "going green" so why are we all possibly wasting what we might not need?
 
jpsika08

jpsika08

Well-Known Member
Jackalope,
The XR's from CREE are a little outdated, the ones that they are promoting now are the XP's, here is the updated PDF for them:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxp-g.pdf

Yes, Orphek has their own LED technology developed by them too, I think this company is going to be one of the LED power players quickly.

Great post! thanks :)
 
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