Kyle's RSM 250

[cabolick]

Thanks guys - Glenn, I scanned through some of your tank thread - your rocks got bright green! Did you have cured live rock or uncured (seems like you had to wait a long time before inverts) - not that I'm in a big rush, but thought with cured live rock from the LFS I might not have to wait too long. Guess I'll wait and see.

The deli shrimp - are you talking like cocktail shrimp from the grocery store? That just helps start the cycle? Do you cut them into pieces? Sorry - I'd seen someone else mention adding shrimp, but wasn't sure whether I should do that or not. Thanks,
--Kyle

Raw shrimp, uncooked, buy at the seafood section of food store. Put in nylon bag, pantyhose, cheesecloth or whatever to keep it all together. Give it a good squeeze and put it in the tank. Leave it for 4 to 6 days. Hold nose when removing it. Put in plastic bag and discard in neighbors trashcan. Check NH4, NO2 & NO3. Sit back and WAIT.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

just as Chris - posted above... as to the shrimp

I just took it nice and slow with my cycle and adding Livestock, for me that took great discipline... I am not a go slow person at anything I do, but I was able to listen to some long time members here & I made myself do it - two months went by pretty fast really & I wanted to get the "cycle" part right

BigAl (Allen) once described it like a foundation of a house... you build upon a solid foundation... I listened to Allen & Terry & Woodstock & several other long time RS members that had years of SW experience & it worked for me.

 

[Reefmack]

Kyle - with well cured rock you won't have as long a cycle time as Glenn did with uncured rock. The shrimp is a good idea - you may not need it, but it's good insurance that you establish a nice bacteria population on the rock and substrate.

 

[kyley]

LOL - thanks guys - Chris, you crack me up "discard in neighbors trashcan"
--Kyle

 

[Reefmack]

Salty Water's thread is a good one to read too - he started up with nice cured rock and did the shrimp thing to get some added insurance:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/red-sea-max-owners-club/53172-no-motion-ocean.html

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

as Glenn did with uncured rock

I did want to start with uncured - but heads up - I had lsf order me some beautiful and expensive Tonga Branch - I called every day and I picked it up the morning it can in, still wrapped in wet newspaper.

LSF has a huge tank of rock - they call it cured - but they order it & when it comes in, it goes in this huge tank (like 2000 gals) - they call it cured - I called mine uncured... all I am saying... is I bet lots of people think they are getting cured rock & it could be uncured, unless you went through the process yourself of curing it, or know for sure - how long it was at the lsf, before you bought it... just food for thought

 

[Reefmack]

You can usually tell uncured by the smell and if it's covered in dead stuff. There can be uncured, pre-cured (not cured well - just rinsed basically), "cured", and fully cured. Fully cured is the most expensive due to the work and time that goes into curing it. I've seen some really foul looking uncured rock! Mine was fully cured, but done correctly - no die-off at all, yet it still had coralline, red mushrooms, zoas, GSP, etc. on it. - good stuff! With some bacterial additive (BioSpira always works for me) I never had a measurable cycle other than nitrates, and 2 fish and a small CUC in the tank within a week. Still have those 2 fish after over 2.5 years.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

I am sure mine was uncured... just as you said above... had all the above signs...

Just LFS has a huge amount of Liverock all in one big tank & you pick out what you want... I see it come in all the time & it goes in the huge tank... when people pick it out... it all sells for the same price $9 a pound ... as cured, but what just went in the day before, sure was not cured much

 

[Reefmack]

I opted for fully cured as I didn't want a long cycle. Mine was $8/lb. including overnight shipping from Raleigh, NC. - my LFS rock is fully cured, but also pretty white and fairly lifeless.

 

[mbdave]

:soap: Am I going to have to quote Marten Moe again? I am a huge disbeliever in the cocktail shrimp. If the rock is cured you have the bacteria already there so if the tests say good then why start it all over again??
I managed a large LFS "probably the largest in NE Florida" and the owner used to say the rock was "partially cured" hmmm what would that definition be? Well it was taken from the ocean and put in our vats for a day so the good bacteria has started to grow, "partially cured" though it had a good week or two at least before it was "not funky" "Read sniff test in my previous posts" Used to have customers come in and ask for it I always hoped someone would ask me for the definition of partially cured.

 

[Reefmack]

I agree with Dave, but we usually get overruled LOL! With fully cured rock I had fish in the tank within a week and had no problems, no measurable ammonia or nitrites, and never had any major green algae outbreaks. But every tank is a bit different. I go against the opinion of the majority in my belief that a shimp is not always needed, and I think at times it can do more harm than good (all those shrimp decomposition products end up making a lot of nitrates to feed green algae attacks). Just my opinion based on my experience & my background in biology. I'm sure not an expert though!

Kyle - by now you must realize that there are all kinds of opinions and counter- opinions LOL! In the end what works best in your tank is the best for you. Figuring out what's best for your tank is the difficult part! Some may be trial and error, but learning from any mistakes is key in being successful.

 

[mbdave]

Now to finish my thought "had to go catch the ferry".The shrimp thing started way back in the wet/dry days everyone usad damsels to cycle and that was cruel. So shrimp became vogue "shrimp not cruel" well when the Berlin method came around with all its uncured funky rock damsels and shrimp became obsolete for cycling" the rock will cycle itself"

 

[Reefmack]

Dave - does anyone still cycle by adding ammonia? I think deli shrimp are better off on my plate than in a tank rotting.

 

[mbdave]

Probably for w/d systems. I have seen people cycle with human bi-product just takes a couple beers you can figure out the rest.

 

[kyley]

Heh heh, yes - a lot of disagreements LOL, now I've got two shrimp and have to decide whether I eat 'em or bake 'em in the aquarium... Ha!
--Kyle

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Dave - does anyone still cycle by adding ammonia

In our local reef club there was a huge debate on this Terry, one guy swears the best thing you can do to cycle the tank is pee in it...

I am still in BigAl, Woodstock camp - I added the deli shrimp & it worked for me...


Kyle - my best advise... read this article written by Travis the owner of ReefSanctuary 10kFriendsArt.

Them make you best decision & Good Luck I went with "by the book" - "old school"

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Kyle - I have read this post ... like 5 times now and & I still go back & re-read it... RS member prow has a really good understanding of all this... it's a bit daunting the 1st time you read this thread... but it finally all starts to make since... be forewarned... it is a bit deep or at least it was for me... but it is a good read when your brain is fresh

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...something-cycling-breaking-new-reef-tank.html

 

[Reefmack]

Heh heh, yes - a lot of disagreements LOL, now I've got two shrimp and have to decide whether I eat 'em or bake 'em in the aquarium... Ha!
--Kyle

I'd eat them myself. Seriously, the rotting shrimp thing may not be needed anywhere near as often as it's used, but it does at least test out the system to be sure the bacteria are established. A lot of people enduring longer cycles due to the rotting shrimp thing may not have even needed it, but they'll never really know. With truly uncured rock there would be enough die-off rotting on the rock that a rotting shrimp would be totally unnecessary. As Dave said, if the live rock is truly cured it doesn't need anything to "get it going". But, the "rule" about adding fish slowly is a good one - you have to build up the bacteria in steps , and allow the bacteria to catch up by multiplying - too many fish at once will be more than the bacteria population a new system can handle. And remember - the majority opinion doesn't always mean it's the best, correct, or that it's a rule. If you really follow "old school" rules you'd eat the shrimp and cycle with cheap fish like damsels, or pee in it. We all have opinions, but I don't consider anyone to be the end all expert on anything in this hobby. Read a lot and make your own decisions.

 

[redsea reefer]

I also wouldn't add the shrimp if you started with cured rock Kyle. I started with cured rock too and didn't add a shrimp unless it was live. Just test your Ammonia level for 2 weeks and if none show up on your tests, you will be fine. Go slow and add one fish at a time and wait at least a month before the next addition.

 

[kyley]

I'm not going to add the shrimp - plenty of good advice on both sides, but I'll just let nature take its course with the already cured rock. I just finished my first run through of tests. Wow, that took awhile - I might be looking for some faster, easier test kits if there is such a thing! I had trouble interpreting the results, but here's what I came up with if anyone's interested:

Alkalinity - 3.2
pH - 8.0 (maybe 8.2)
Ammonia - looked like 0.25 (thought it was 0 at first - tough to tell)
Nitrite - .05 (at first thought this was 0.1)
Nitrate - 10 ("true" = 8)
Calcium - 385

Glenn - I started reading that article last night and am returning to it tonight I have a lot I want to read, but hard to find the time.

Oh! Tonight while watching the rocks (that sounds funny), I saw some odd striped, flatish worm thing (pretty small) sticking out of a hole that was releasing a white fluid (seemed like quite a bit and took 30 seconds or so) that quickly mixed with the water. Any idea what it was (not worrying - just curious!) I tried to take a picture, but had to take it at an angle to the glass and couldn't get it in focus. Take care,
--Kyle