Jaubert Plenum

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Ok folks here is round one. This is the discription and concept of a Jaubert Plenum. Take a pick and let go from here.

Professor Jean Jaubert, originally of the University of Nice, in France, was the originator of this sytem to be used as a nitrifier and a denitrifier using bacteria in both areobic and anaerobic states. Prof. Jaubert also determined through closed system experimentation that the key to unlocking the potential to the sediment was diffusion. His discovery began to materialize in the late 70's, and reached an apex in the 90's with an American patent (which was obtained subsequent to his European patents of the same system), # 4,995,980 (Delbeek, 1994).
Moving on to a correct setup and utilization of the system, an understanding of nitrogen utilizing bacteria is required. As many aquarists are familiar with the nitrogen cycle in aquaria, and that upper layers of sediment are excellent for aerobic nitrogen breakdown/utilization, they also realize that for nitrate to be effectively utilized by the bacteria (and converted to nitrogen gas), a substantial surface area of space that is low in oxygen (generally below 2 mg/L) needs to be present. Well, deeper sediments provide an ideal area for nitrate breakdown and utilization by bacteria. Thus, the Jaubert system, consists of a 4"-6" deep layer of sediment having mass resonant of that found on high energy reefs (i.e., variable sizes, with little to none smaller than 2 millimeters, Carib-Sea's Geo Marine Crushed Coral generally makes the ideal substrate, along with some large grains mixed in), which rests on top of an elevated diffusing plate (usually plastic lighting louvre/eggcrate covered with fiberglass screen to prevent sediment from falling through). The sandbed/diffusion plate rests 1"-2" above the bottom of the container/aquarium, supported by small sections of one or two inch PVC pipe.
It is important to keep the sides (below the sand line) and underneath of aquarium covered to prevent any light from entering the sandbed/plenum system itself beyond what comes through the exposed topside. Keeping all light from the sandbed and "plenum" space system prevents extra growth of oxygen producing autotrophs in the space meant for low-oxygen, nitrate utilizing bacteria. This assists in maintaining the oxygen concentrations in the plenum space at around an optimal 1-1.5 mg/L,. Some oxygen should be present in the plenum/lower sandbed, as just mentioned, in order to prevent hydrogen sulfide buildup, etc.. This small allowance of oxygen is provided through bioturbation by absolutely pivotal sanded infauna. These infauna also allow diffusion of nitrogen gas back up through the sandbed to escape the system.
Once established, bacterial metabolism produces organic acids and bacterial respiration forms carbonic acid in the local water. These processes/substances lower the pH of the sandbed and allow dissolution of the argonite substrate, with diffusion assistance from the plenum space below. The ions liberated by these actions are diffused in the display/bulk water via the same bioturbation that allows nitrogen to escape. These ions and their functions in terms of scleractinian corals and maintenance of reef-quality water. The trick to gauging the amount of ions liberated and the demand for their maintenance of water quality lies in initially monitoring the carbon/nitrogen/food input of your system, and testing for the ions and their rates of depletion. Also, sandbed area has to be large enough to be able to completely utilize nitrogenous nutrients in order to maintain oligotrophic (nutrient poor) conditions. It should also go without saying that high energies above the sandbed and light resonant of levels found on natural reefs are integral (of course, "resonant" referring to "as close as possible by a hobbyist/aquarist").


Ok thiers a start.


MIke
 

NaH2O

Contributing Member
That is great, Mike. I just need to digest it and think about it for a minute...I'll be tagging along....:invisible
 

swissgaurd

Member
Mike
you hit the jaubert system .right on the nail.
I ran a 55 gallon system for approx. 5yrs with the plenum.fish looked good.corals seemed to love it.water parameters were always good exept i had a cyno outbreak once,but it did not last long.it was quite simple to set up the system.i had a one inch plenum space below the substrate.my first layer was crushed oyster shells,which was chicken feed,this prevented fine sand from escaping below the eggcrate.crushed oyster shell thickness was approx. 1 inch deep.On top of the oyster shells i put 2 inches of a sugar grain sand and mixed in 2 pounds of live sand.I also set up 2 other systems wich are still in operation one system is a 65 gallon using crushed coral instead of the oyster shells and uses a protien skimmer he has now installed a refugium.the other system is a 75 gallon system and has no protien skimmer the tank has been highly neglected for 1 yr tank got a hair algae problem and is finally getting back on track,cause i started bitchin
of the amount of work and money that was spent.tank should look aussum by christmas.this tank also uses crushed coral.also has purchased a skimmer for tank.
I really dont see any draw backs to the jaubert system except it is designed to run without a skimmer but i do believe that you should use one.also a jabert plenum takes away alot of headspace from the tank.my first success story was with a plenum system.

vic
 

ScottT1980

Well-Known Member
First-off, well done mojo/poo/Mike :D

Also called the Monaco-style system becausze of its use (and success) in the Monaco aquarium.

Here is a link to more specific information about the Monaco system

This is similar to the system I run in my tank and it seems to be just as effective as a DSB, although I question whether it is more effective. I think substrate size is crucial and I don't have that nailed down at this point. FWIW, I also run with a skimmer and a fuge so it is incorrect for me to say that I run a Jaubert or a Monaco system, just that I have a plenum.

Anyway, I forgot what else I was going to say so good work Mike!:columbo:

Take er easy
Scott T.
 
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Maxx

Well-Known Member
One thing to keep in mind w/ Jaubert/ Monaco/ Plenum systems....little rockwork, and light bioload, are required in order to provide a LARGE (reletive to the tank's footprint) surface area. The rock will compract the substrate and reduce the effectiveness of the plenum, otherwise. Juabert also had typically light biloads in order to keep from overwhelming his set up w/ detritus.
Nick
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Maxx very strong points. so lets take that a bit further. on the bioload it would seem that the massive water change scheme would work to help, but that may be tough for us, would occational syphoning of the bed maybe even out the inputs to outputs??
On the substriaght compression, this is a problem both dsb and plenums have, would remote locations be more effective.


mike
 

ScottT1980

Well-Known Member
On the substriaght compression, this is a problem both dsb and plenums have, would remote locations be more effective.

Everything that I have read suggests that this would be the optimal choice. In fact, much of the literature suggests that a remote plenum is perhaps better than a remote DSB (not to get into the debate, just what I remember reading).

I have a question as well, I was told that a plenum allots for a good bit of Calcium release into the water column (compared to a DSB) through the breakdown of aragonite. Has anyone found this to be the case? I certainly have not with my system...

Take er easy
Scott T.
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Scott the one thing that I think makes a strong arguement for this system is the particle size and the high flow energy used. the lower Ph in oth the dsb and the plenum will allow for the melting of argonite (also bacterial acids play a strong role). with a larger particle sizes migration of elements would seem to be better. In relating that to his setup I would say the constant water changing keeps his levels at the normal ocean concintration and then the small amounts of of carbonate and calcium from the plenum wold bump it a bit. I dont think this would apply to what we are trying to do in our tanks, but we could say that if we can maintain our levels with an outside source (calreactor/ kalk/additves) it would help in the process.

mike
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
So now we're discussing the possibility of remote plenums....I like the idea, can see some merits. But what size plenum are we talking about? Do I need a 65 gallon plenum set up to be effective on my 58 gallon tank? Also, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that vacuuming plenums is okay, and should be done? If this is the case why have we not seen a large sweeping remote plenum movement? Or are you guys so cutting edge that I can claim I saw it here first????:D
genuinely curious here,
Nick
 

swissgaurd

Member
I tried vacumuming and stirring the sand bed this caused a few algae problems the best method i found was just let it be and use the use of nassurios snails to maintain the sand bed.
I do find it was easier to maintain calcium levels though.

vic
 

NaH2O

Contributing Member
Originally posted by Maxx
So now we're discussing the possibility of remote plenums....I like the idea, can see some merits. But what size plenum are we talking about? Do I need a 65 gallon plenum set up to be effective on my 58 gallon tank?

Interesting point, Nick. A remote plenum to be effective may have to be quite large to gain any benefits, and may be more of a hassle than to have one in the main system.
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Well Nick we are breaking it down. On the question of remote or not, thats what this is all about. OK here is the breakdown as I see it so far. Plenumn system outline as it it in a public aquarium with lots of flow and constant waterchanges, for me taking this sytem as it is in monaco and dumping it into a reef tank is going to be hard to do and it needs some mods to make it work for a hobbist. So first thing to do is to recognize the problems (maxx's first one, compressed substraight), so lets figure out how to get past it, first responce, go remote, so next is are thier problems with that or are thier alturnative methods around it??
By the time we get through we got a fully explained system..that works

Mike
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
I love it when you run w/ these structured discussions Mike! I know you already got the answer, but ya stil gotta make us work for it! All right, I'm up for the pepsi challenge....
For plenums to work, they require time to convert the nitrates into non harmful compounds. They also require surface area to do this. So the major rationale of not running a remote plenum is the space requirement involved....
hows that for starters?
Nick
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
You right Nick contact time and the deposit of detritus is important, but I think we could do that by manipulating plumbing.???
Now we keep getting back to this size issue on almost all systems discussed, but I dont really understand it??? so someone needs to clue me in.

mike
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
Now we keep getting back to this size issue on almost all systems discussed, but I dont really understand it??? so someone needs to clue me in.
For the plenum to work as advertised, it has to have a larger surface area. So if it is to work a tank w/ a 36Lx18w foot print, it should have at least the same size surface area in order to be effective, right? This sorta limits things that we can keep under our tank...
Am I following the right path...or ahve gone off the deep end?
Nick
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Ahhh I got ya Nick. Do you really think that pertains that much though?? If we look at any system, DSB/Plenum/BB/MM The need for exportation is always still thier. One of the pros for sand substriaghts is life form and an ammount of denitrification. Now yes if its in the main you will have a larger foot print, but in the same breathe about half (for most folks) is going to be covered by rocks. This will impact its efficiency, specially in regard to the water energy it needs. So in reality we may not be that far off, and to be honest I dont understand how we get x amount of plenum is equal to x amount of sand or plenum. From my readings I see that we have to be careful and regulate the ammount of detritus entering the plenum so as not to overload it. And that I know we can come up with a plan to solve that one. An example would be we divert 1/2 of the water coming out of the tank to the skimmer and process it that way, then take the other half and allow it to directly enter the Plenum. Just in doing that we cut the waste by 50 % and still get all the benefits of the system??

Whatcha think


Mike
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
possible...but much easier to accomplish on a set up like w/ a 58 gallon tank than one of say 650 gallons....need one monster skimmer for that kinda flow.....BTW...I really like how you take each discussion like this and make it an intellectual exercise, but I've noticed that you didnt have a remote plenum for your gorgeous system...why would that be????
Nick
 

Scooterman

Active Member
I think.........umm ok we won't go there!

In a small tank, I think a DSB would be very beneficial because of the rapid changes involved in such a small amount of water. Well unless you change water weekly, just a thought!
 
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