Instant Ocean very high kh

[Borg11]

Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone else has had problems with the salt mix. We have had our tank for 16 months and everything was thriving. Water parameters were always great, corals were growing and healthy. About 3 weeks ago the finger leather and the toadstool started to droop. I thought they were going through a shed, they have before and came back better than ever. Than in a couple of days my very healthy blastomuso was receding. I checked the water quality. Everything was great except the kh. It was very high (23). I do 10% water changes faithfully every week and immediately did one.....checked parameters again. Magnesium slightly low at 1000 and calcium at 360. Dosed both and checked again. Both were back close to an acceptable range. kh was still high (18). Did another water change 4 days later and in the mean time lost the toadstool and fingerleather. Now the hammerhead has receded and so is the trumpet coral. I checked my own source water and as I knew we have soft and slightly acidic water. I them mixed up a batch of salt water for a water change and checked it. Kh was high at 18. I am about half way down the bucket and had no problems up until now. I am heading down to the LFS on Friday to get him to test the water also. I don't think the test is out. Just not sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I really want to get this back on track. Oh yeah, I was having problems keeping my ph up and now it is at 8.3 all on its own. Fish are doing fine, open brain, some zooanthids are open and some others are closed up tight. HELP.
Borg

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

IO normally has high Alk. Question is...How did you Alk get higher than the water change water? Do you normally dose ALK, MG and CA or Kalkwasser?

I use IO/RC which has an ALK of around 14 when freshly mixed. After a couple of days of mixing it lowers to about 11dKH (4.0 meq/l). I dose ALK and CA daily and I have never had an issue with high ALK.

 

[Borg11]

Thanks for the reply. No I don't dose anything if I don't need to. I check my parameters and dose accordingly. I don't use RODI water because I am on a well and have never had a problem. I honestly don't know how it got that high that quickly. That's why I am so confused.
Borg

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

do you ever use any "buffers"?

Well or no well, it would be a good idea to invest in an RO/DI. Control of your source water means you will have more control of your tank. Also when problems such as this arise you can confidently rule out your source water.

(Well water can be very high in minerals and heavy metals, some of them you do not want in your SW tank.)

 

[Borg11]

I tested my well water and have many times. Our water is very soft and just below neutral. That was the first thing I tested. Also it's a shallow well so not as many minerals etc. I definitely understand where you're coming from. Like I said though it just happened so fast. We have never had any kind of problem with the water. Just weekly water changes.
Borg

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

I am hard headed about source water, but I'll leave it alone. I really cant think of another reason for your increase in ALK.

Youve never used any buffers or other additives?

 

[rgfast]

your not the only one having problem with the salt I also have been using IO/RC I get consisten test alk 9ddk cal. 440 and mag 1350 yet have ph drop.I have been trying to bame /di filter but thats not my problem,just made new batch of water with diffent salt an ph is up.I know that alk and co2 are the things that effect ph the most and have been running The Filter Guys co2 filter with skimmer.I'm changing salt bands now to Sea Chem aquavitro salinty.

 

[Frankie]

Is everyone who is using IO here thoroughly mixing the salt up in the box prior to using it? Settling from shipping is a major reason for salt issues.

 

[GrendelPrime]

i use io and have for yrs and i never had any imballance but i also split the bucket between 2 buckets each about half full and i roll it across the floor a few times to mix the salt to make sure it all gets a good blending before i use it for my wc

 

[rgfast]

latelly I've been buying the 200gl box witch is 4 50gl bags. I mix 40gls at the time, I start by pouring the salt into bucket then taking 20 cups of salt from that to make 35ppt. this leaves somewhere around 5 cups left next week I pour another bag in same bucket and the possess goes on so maybe my inbalance is in the 5 cups left in the bucket. I don't really think that is the case but maybe

 

[Boomer]

I do 10% water changes faithfully every week and immediately did one.....checked parameters again. Magnesium slightly low at 1000 and calcium at 360. Dosed both and checked again. Both were back close to an acceptable range. kh was still high (18)

Yo can't get Mg++ 1,000 ppm. It is either a testing error or you mixed it wrong. ie., did not mix the bucket/bag. Are you adding salt to the water or adding water to the salt. I hope you are not adding water to the salt.

and others

your not the only one having problem with the salt I also have been using IO/RC I get consisten test alk 9ddk cal. 440 and mag 1350 yet have ph drop

Has noting to do with the salt mix what so ever. pH is a sole function of CO2 and Alk. 99 % of the time it is CO2. pH drop is not from the salt mix. It is from the guy in the mirror that has tank problems

 

[rgfast]

Hi Boomer glad you could join the party, I agree I have a tank problem. I don't know that the salt I'm using is the Problem as a hole but after switching to present mix I have slowly been getting and inbalance between carbonate/bicarbonate ratio. I'm all hears if you know of another resson for this, it's not something that just happenned and the only thing that I've changed is the salt. The resson I changed salt I didn't like the low alk of the coral pro that I started with. I'm not here to bash any band and have tried to resolve this problem I have every where other than looking at the salt any help with this is would be great I'm all hears to what I maybe doing wrong

 

[Boomer]

I have slowly been getting and inbalance between carbonate/bicarbonate ratio.

I do not think you understand what you just said The ratio is controlled by the pH only. Meaning, if you have a pH of 8.2 and an Alk of 7 dkH and your buddy has the same pH and dKH, that ratio of carbonate/bicarbonate is the same for both of you. If you have a pH of 8.2 and a Alk of 7 dKH and your buddy has a pH of 8.2 and a Alk of 9 dKH you still both have the same ratio. That ratio only changes if the pH goes up or down.


it's not something that just happenned and the only thing that I've changed is the salt. The resson I changed salt I didn't like the low alk of the coral pro that I started with.

It does not make any different what the salt is. A salt having a little higher Alk helps more with pH stability but it almost nil. No matter what the Alk, when CO2 enters the system, Alk means squat when it comes to pH. It is CO2 that is getting into the system and you are just blaming the salt. Your issue is high CO2 from somewhere not the salt mix.



Here is a good way to see it visually. The numbers going up the left side are concentration, how much there is and increases as you go yup. If the concentration is higher than the highest graph from increased Alk above those numbers, the graph is still the same. The numbers at the bottom are pH. We will pretend these graphs are for a Alk of ~ 4.5 dkH at x pH. You can see as the pH shifts right or left how the CO2, Bicarb and carbonate change in the % they make-up. The numbers going up the left side where it says ~ -2.8 is about 100 %. See the numbers in the middle for seawater@ pH ~8.2, i.e, 2.05 , 0.12 and 0.02. If you took that 4.5 dKH, made it 45 and times 2.05, 0.12, and 0.02 = Bicrab ~@ 92 %, Carb @ % 5.5 % and CO2 @ ~0.9 %. Now, if we lower the Alk to 2 dKH or raise it to 15 dKH those % are still the same They will only change if the pH changes.

 

[Frankie]

I would like to know what all of you who are complaining are using to measure the salinity of a freshly mixed batch of IO? Are you sure of your calibrations also?
How long was the salt mixed for prior to testing and temperature?
IO has some very strict guide lines during processing and I doubt it has any variations from batch to batch.
Most errors in testing is because of the tester
Thanks for the education Boomer

 

[rgfast]

thanks Boomer I will work on the co2 some moreFrankie I use Refactormeter CAL. with pinpoint 53.0 mS hanna ph/orp meter pinpoint 7.0 these are calibrated at least every 6 weeks or sooner if I think I maybe getting bad reading and for those who aren't I reccomend you do

 

[Frankie]

Sounds like you are using the right tools
I calibrated my refractometer every time prior to use. It is easy enough.

 

[rgfast]

this is true I'd bet people wouldn't believe how fast they can get out of cal.as lager of water volvume as I have I can usualy notice refactor being off a little due to my tank stays pretty dead on, I'm moving about 350gls thanks for your imput as hard as I try two heads are always better than one

 

[Borg11]

Thanks for all the information. I am not trying to blame any problems on salt mixes. I have used IO for as long as my tank has been going. I am just trying to figure out what is going wrong. I took water samples down to the fish store and he got the same results. He did say that IO had changed their mix. As for mixing...I add the salt to the water and mix for about a day and a half, then check salinity with a refractometer which is calibrated every time I use it. I have got the dkh down to 15 in the tank and that's where she sits. It won't come down. Chris at the fish store suggested cutting down my salinity a bit every water change, therefore using less salt and getting it down that way slowly with every water change. Is there a salt I can buy that has a lower dkh already? I am getting pretty frustrated as I watch my critters stress and die.
Thanks again for all the info

 

[BobBursek]

I thought I posted here, but your Alk can not get that high without dosing something, or test kits are way off, with just water changes unless your SG is way too high but you have said your refactometer is spot on, here is a site with recent salt mixes big 3 numbers.
Synthetic Salt Mixes - Reef Central Online Community

 

[Borg11]

Thanks for that website. Unfortunately it isn't easy for me to get most of those salt brands. Our closest LFS is an hour away and only sells instant ocean. So today I drove down there, picked up some of their RODI water and brought it home for a water change. I tested that water first and there was just the slightest trace of kh. I then mixed up a weak batch of Instant Ocean. I mean weak as in about 32ppt. After mixing I tested that water. It came out to 15 in the kh test. That is what my tank is sitting at with no dosing. I am trying to find a source close to me of one of the salt mixes that are lower. I still think it seems to be the salt.j
Borg