Hyposalinity treatment using ATS quarrantine tank

[docjames]

Okay Leebca, it's been 4 weeks since I re-started the hypo. This time I monitored it very carefully a few times a day and keep SG strickly at or near 1.008 but never over. I noticed one of the Achilles tang's fin have a very define white nodule that appeared over a week ago. It's size is a little larger than the white spots I've seen previously. I was just wondering if it is possible that it can be Ich and if it is possible that the Achilles' the lone fish infected at that SG. Any of your wisdom will be appreciated. I tried to take a photo of the dot, but that achilles' just swims around too fast.

James

 

[leebca]

This Tang is one that doesn't like holding still. I appreciate the attempt at getting a photo.

Not all spots make a Leopard. Not all spots on fish are Marine Ich. It's probably unlikely to be Marine Ich at this stage. Fish get 'white heads' much as humans do, which can be misleading. They are walled off areas of bacteria (like a pimple, too).

Unfortunately, there are other parasites that do have a similar nodule stage. Once a hobbyist has become (too) familiar with Marine Ich, the size, shape, and/or color of non-MI spots are usually seen as not being the same as Marine Ich.

Without a photo or better identification, it's impossible to say what to do and be sure the issue is properly addressed. If it is bacteria (most likely) the properly fed and nourished fish will deal with it in a few days.

If you've diligently performed the hyposalinity treatment as recommended and the fish has gone at least 4 weeks without MI spots, then proceed to raise the sp. gr. slowly. Have antibiotic ready to administer should the fish not get rid of that lone spot or show other symptoms of a bacterial infection.

If it is some other parasite, it will show itself during the 4 weeks of observation after the sp. gr. is back to normal.

 

[docjames]

Thank you Leebca! I just scooped out the fish and take a close look with a flashlight and it doesn't look like ich. Too big. I did a excision on that portion of the fin and the fish seem fine right after putting it back to the quarrantine tank eating like crazy. You're probably right, because I did notice its other fin's looks more like Lymphocitis. Might be viral.

 

[docjames]

Okay leebca, gonna pick on your wisdom again. March 29th will be full 4 weeks after the last white spot have been spotted and of which the QT has been in hyposalinity. I will begin to raise the salinity. I hope everything will go uneventfully. I hope my following questions will not be of nuisance to you because I do have several that I want to ask you. So here it goes: 1. I've read on other sites that said the trophonts can survive in the gills indefinitely, is it true? If not, has it been proven so? 2. By chance this time I'm successful the fishes will go into the DT in 1 month. Ever since I started hyposalinity last November, I've already have some other fishes (hard to come by ones) already purchased to be QT. Do I QT at normal salinity if no spots are seen or should I go through the hypo treatment regardless? 3. None of my wrasses survived the hypo treatment and I would like to have some. The LFS told me the wrasse needs to feed on organisms that will not survive in hypo of which I do believe since all the wrasses during the months all died of starvation. Can you enlighten me if there's anyway I can successfully QT the wrasses in hypo. I have not yet seen white spots on them but I know they can be a carrier. I'm hoping you can tell me how to keep those wrasse alive and there will be other fishes in the QT that would let me know if the QT will be successful. 4. My children really like eels, can they survive hyposalinity QT? I've read from so many sites that have so many conflicting answers. I come to the conclusion that I only want to follow your advise and steps hoping to become successful in this hobby since you are so successful in this hobby. 5. After the next phase of what I have mentioned, there are still corals and anemones that I want to put into the DT. I will QT them in normal salinity. Do I QT them for 4 or 8 weeks? I know maybe I should search around for all these answers, but I just don't want to make any mistakes. So there it is. I come to you for all these answers. I also want to say a very big thank you since the beginning of this QT process. I am truly very thankful.

James

 

[leebca]

James,

Let's see. . .in a rather abbreviated (blunt) response:

1. No. Yes. By necropsy
2. Do not MI treat new acquisitions unless they are a kind of Tang or known to be infected.
3. You won't MI treat the wrasse unless it is infected. All fish can be treated for MI. No captive marine fish should depend on 'wild' organisms in the tank. The wrasse, like all fishes, need training on eating prepared foods, thus no fish, wrasse or otherwise should be starving during QT, or during MI treatment. They don't need other fishes in the QT along with them for any reason. If the QT is sized properly, the fish will display if the fish is infected.
4. Eels are sensitive to a variety of treatments. However for them I would advise Cupramine. This copper is very successful with their treatment and covers not only MI but Marine Velvet and a few other pathogens.
5. I'm not an expert on invertebrate/coral QT. If all you want is to QT them for fish diseases and specifically for Mi, then one month should be adequate. If however you suspect or believe the source these life forms come from has contained MI, then I'd be even more conservative and go the 8 weeks.

You are welcome, as always.

 

[docjames]

Thank you leebca. Your first answer is only one that worries me. Can you clarify what you meant? Do you mean that it's there indefinitely only because the fish was found with ICH during biopsy post death? Or have anyone ever dissected a diseased free fish that have lived in an aquarium for a long time and still found ICH in its gills?

 

[leebca]

No problem. . .

No. This was in response to whether or not the parasite can live indefinitely in the gills.

Yes. This was in response to 'has it been proven.'

By necropsy. This was in response in how to prove that the parasite doesn't live indefinitely in the gills. Once an infected fish is properly and diligently cured, there are no parasites in the gills. Do all fish have the parasite? No. About 60% of the wild fishes (relative to the region) do not have the parasite anywhere, including their gills.

I could also have added tests performed by gill clippings (not having to kill the fish).

In general, those that spread the rumor that MI is always present and can't be gotten rid of, are those that are looking for excuses to allow their fishes to be infected. They are either ignorant of the science or unwilling to accept the facts. Most who claim to have such (anecdotal) information didn't quarantine or treat properly and diligently. :flaming:

NOW. If you were asking can the parasite just hang out there and never display on the rest of the fish, the answer is still No. That is because in a captive environment, the parasite eventually multiplies to such population levels that it displays more openly. In this case, those who spread rumors have 'selective sight' and ignore the other signs/symptoms.

 

[docjames]

Undertood completely now. Raising Salinity begin today, 2 days after a full 4 weeks after the last white spot was seen. Crossing my fingers and a another big thanx to Leebca!

James

 

[docjames]

I have 2 sets of equipments for the DT and quarrantine tank. Aseptic concept is well planted in my brain. Anyway, I want to thank you again leebca as I have finally got rid of ICH. Yes, my DT tank is fill with all the fishes from the quarrantine tank and they are Ich free. I keep the salinity at 1.007 stable throughout the whole 5 weeks and observed very closely for 2 weeks (2 weeks short of 4 weeks recommendation). They are doing great and are happy fishes in the tank now. I just love watching all the tangs swimming all over the places, especially having 2 Achilles in there that gets along with eachother. I'm moving to phase 2 to put more fishes into the quarrantine tank. Wish me luck. I'm happy.

Thank you,

James
James

 

[leebca]

Good news. Please be patient and go slowly. . .don't blow it!

 

[docjames]

Thanx for everything leebca. my DT is full of healthy fishes. they are doing good and i started to quarantine some new fishes into week 2 now. hyposalinity did the job! happy fishes=happy me. Post some pictures later.

 

[leebca]

You are more than welcome.

I understand the effort. Most hobbyists would just not do it and let their fish suffer or die off, replacing them until their budget ran out. You took the 'high road' and should be commended!

 

[docjames]

Leebca, my 2nd phase of angelfishes are finally into the DT and all are doing well. I now are moving into my last phase of using this quarrantine tank to put some more corals, anemones, shrimps...etc into the DT. I have a question I like to ask of you. I'll be placing these into the quarrantine tank. For 8 weeks right? I know that the LFS that I'm purchasing these are full of ich. That's why I'm asking you this question. Any reply would be as usual, very thankful.


James

 

[leebca]

My usual response would be to hold non-fish marine life in quarantine for no less than one month. If you are sure the source of these items has Marine Ich, then I would be more conservative. You have worked hard to gain control over the situation and it would be frustrating to let things get out of control at this point.

So, I would recommend 8 weeks for those non-fish marine life coming from known infested sources. As before, this is 8 straight weeks without addition, contamination with infested waters, or contact with infected sources.

 

[Frankie]

I cleaned up the thread for you James.

Good read! I am learning a few things here. Keep up the good rapport!

 

[docjames]

Thanks Lee and Frankie. I'll do that. 8 full weeks as patience have grown on me over the months. You're absolutely right, I've gone too far since last what? September or November to mess things up right now. It's been a long road but I'm just plain happy I found this forum or I'd probably already given up on this hobby. I was going to put a couple more fishes in first but my LFS told me he can not give me a time frame on when a bandit angelfish will be flown into Taiwan. My DT's looking good but awaits new additions. Still haven't taken some photos yet, but will post once I have time. Work has been hectic for me lately. All my appreciation goes out to you!

James