Hyposalinity treatment using ATS quarrantine tank

docjames

Member
I had a post at the end of "Hyposalinity Treatment of C. irritans in Display Tank" where leebca had told me that I should start my own thread instead, since my questions where "different". However, my main goal is the same, fighting marine ich. Much of what I write here and posted pictures will be the same from the other post.
I started a marine aquarium in April 2010 and after 3 months I started adding fishes. My DT is running only with ATS as the sole filtration and a calcium reactor. Ever since the algae in the sump started to grow, all my readings on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate have been undetectable. Phosphate was once read at 0.003 PPM but have since been 0.001 and now 0 for months using Hanna phosphate checker even before I setup my quarrantine tank. A few months ago, after loosing some fishes to ich, I setup a quarrantine tank. My reasoning was since my DT can work with ATS, I can apply it to my quarrantine tank even easier. So I had a fiberglass plate made and put into my DT sump for algaes to grow and then transfer it to my quarrantine tank.

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with the lights out

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with the lights on running on 35 watts 4000K lighting
I then had my LFS people come over and dismantle everything to move all the fishes to the quarrantine tank. I did however, lower the SG from 1.022 to 1.008 in 3 hours, but none of the fishes showed any ill effect. As leebca had warn me in the other post, there may be a more profound effect in the long term for the fishes by dropping the SG so fast. I did not drop the SG in such a short period unintentionally, I did it intentionally hoping that the rapid change in the SG may have more impact on the ich. I have gone through many vet journals that I can find over the toleration of marine fishes in SG changes and there are conflicts in school of thoughts. I chose to take the chance. As you can see, the fish so far are fine after 6 weeks of hypo at 1.008.

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As for my water parameters, I have never made any water changes since day 1, I only add RO water for the evaporation so the SG have been steady at 1.008 using refractometer. My PH level have been at 8.1-8.2 since day 1 and I have not needed to add any buffer. Maybe because it doesn't go through the nitrogen cycle, the PH didn't drop. I do not fully understand. My thoughts are maybe because my use of ATS for this 25 gallons quarrantine tank, the only undesire waste would be ammonia. There are no nitrogen cycle to begin with so there won't be nitrite or nitrate to be produced and the algaes comsumes any nutrients so fast, I could not get a detectable reading of ammonia with my test kits (waterlife or sera test kits). As you can see in the previous pictures, my 25 gallons quarrantine tank have more fishes in it than there should be. Anyway, I just like to share my battle against marine ich with everyone that's in this forum and I wish everyone, including me, to succeed. Lastly are a picture of my DT and quarrantine tank:

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James from Taiwan
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Thanks James. Your setup is different and although it is a fight against Marine Ich, there are hundreds of threads on the same topic and putting them into one huge thread would diminish their value.

The dropping of the sp. gr. quickly to kill or stress more Marine Ich parasites means you don't understand how hyposalinity works on the parasite. The parasites on the fish are protected from the lowered sp. gr. Only parasites that leave the fish are affected by the drop in sp. gr. So, the parasite wasn't being stressed/dieing for several hours to days after the sp. gr. was lowered.

You should read more closely this post: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

All micro organisms are affected by a change in sp. gr., including algae, bacteria, etc. Some algae will die off in such an environment, taken over by other algae that prefers the new environment, perhaps to only die off again when the sp. gr. is raised and the environment is no longer suitable to them.

In the hobby, it is always best to act and be conservative, taking as few risks as possible with the environment of the fish. Keep monitoring your water quality closely throughout the process and be prepared to make huge water changes should they be needed.

Good luck! :thumbup:

 

Kathleen

Member
Docjames, beautiful set up. I am amazed to see 2 achillies and a powder blue doing well in a small QT tank, are they showing any signs of aggression toward one another? Are they eating well?
 

docjames

Member
Kathleen, I was quite surprise myself having all these tangs in such a small tank. No, they're not showing any aggression toward eachother since moving them into the quarrantine tank. They are eating like pigs and gain quite lots of weight. I'm just hoping this pure hyposalinity treatment will work.

James
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Please add a daily test kit (not dip stick) test for ammonia and nitrite, taking your sample and doing the test 1-2 hours after a feeding. These two are the most likely to be problematic. :)
 

docjames

Member
leebca, when i do check for the ammonia, I do check it at around 2 hours post feeding. It's always undetectable. I use both waterlife and Sera ammonia test kits (I don't trust the dipsticks either....LOL). The algae growing in this hyposalinity condition is very green and healthy looking. They are nutrients vacuums. The only downside to this setup is I can not use any type of medications or antibiotics. I have no knowledge to what kind of effect it will have on the algaes. I'll post a picture next time I take it out for cleaning.
 

docjames

Member
I did my weekly clean up on the ATS after feeding and took a photo. It takes me 5 minutes to "shower" the fiberglass plate and did some scrubbing. All readings are the same from the test kits. 0 ammonia. 0 Nitrite. PH 8.2. It's the first time in a month I check the nitrite since I see no logic checking it.

AQ7.JPG
 

docjames

Member
I thought I should put an update on my quarrantine tank. My last post was in Dec 18th and before I begin, just want to wish everyone a happy new year. Well....After my last post (7 weeks into hypo), I went by my LFS and saw a Sohal I've been waiting for for months, they are also hard to come by in Taiwan as is Achilles. Sohals and Achilles are my most favorites of all fishes and so I was afraid they'd be gone within a day. Therefore I bought the sohal, a Queen angelfish (hard to come by too), a couple of wrasse and put them into the Quarrantine tank (Sorry Lee, I really don't have the time to take that much time for acclimation so it's 3 hours for them too). Guess the clock had to start over. Well, it's been 3 weeks and I guess that's ok, 5 more week of quarrantine (these new ones never showed any white spots), and I can start raising the salinity or do you recommend longer or shorter period? I've learned to be very patient now. The main tank's should been fallow long enough by then. So, I got all my favorite fishes and will be starting to start raising the salinity in 5 weeks. Then there's another month of waiting right? Gees....this quarrantine really are a pain in the butt. Hope it's all worth it. BTW, all reading are still the same, I got sick of checking daily so I put up an PH reader and as I said before since day one, it's at steady PH 8.1. SG 1.008-1.009, ammonia 0. I had to add some tetra marine salt due to some salt crystalization surrounding the tank build up. Otherwise, they're all eating well and just gaining weight and I think they've grown bigger too. Also looks very crowded. Only changes I've had to adjust is to is clean that ATS more often now due to more nutrients been produced and all that more food I had to put into the tank. Here's some pics.....didn't catch the blue powder in the photo, guess he's hiding in one of the PVC or don't like to be in the picture. LOL.

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docjames

Member
After 8 weeks holding at salinity of 1.009. I raised the salinity back to 1.020. 2 weeks into normal salinity, I noticed both Achilles had small specks on their body last night. Wasn't sure if it could be Ich. Well, today after work, I shine the light into the fishes and saw few dozens of while spots on the achilles and powder blue. I failed. Beginning to lower the salinity again.
 

Kathleen

Member
Look at the bright side, at least you caught it before returning them to the display. I did this for 8 weeks twice and still have ich in my DT.
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Please remember that it isn't the number of weeks or time in hyposalintiy that is important. It is the number of weeks or amount of time since the last spot was detected. That is the important time consideration.

If you are sure there's been no cross contamination, contamination or introduction of new parasites via equipment, etc., then you might consider you don't have Marine Ich.

If your biological filter is up and running properly, which it should after this amount of time, I'd switch to a treatment using Cupramine.
 

docjames

Member
Lee, thanks for the response. You know what sucks here? They don't sale cupramine at the LFS. I'll ask about it though. As for the last spot seen, that might be the problem because I did introduce the last fish (Sohal) 8 weeks before raising the salinity. I didn't see any white spots on the fish. However, the person that I bought that fish from (not from the LFS), last I heard, had a bad breakout of ICH in his tank. Anyway, thanks Lee and Kath for the support. More hypo time for my fishes.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
After 8 weeks holding at salinity of 1.009. I raised the salinity back to 1.020. 2 weeks into normal salinity, I noticed both Achilles had small specks on their body last night. Wasn't sure if it could be Ich. Well, today after work, I shine the light into the fishes and saw few dozens of while spots on the achilles and powder blue. I failed. Beginning to lower the salinity again.

While you may not have cured the ich infestation, I would hardly call what your doing a failure. The use of ATS on a quarantine tank does solve one of the big problems of maintaining the water quality while the fish are being treated. It's obviously much less stressful on the fish, compared to the usual massive water changes that are typically done. Good luck.
 

docjames

Member
I'm pretty sure it is ICh. I have a big problem. They don't have cupramine over here. So thanks for your and Kathleen's support. More hypo for my fishes. BTW, If the SG drops down to 1.007 once in a while, will it cause any ill effect? Because of the airstone you see salt forming all over the place from in dry spots of the aquarium. I was just wondering because all the fishes seems to be normal.
 

docjames

Member
I'm pretty sure it is ICh. I have a big problem. They don't have cupramine over here. So thanks for your and Kathleen's support. More hypo for my fishes. BTW, If the SG drops down to 1.007 once in a while, will it cause any ill effect? Because of the airstone you see salt forming all over the place from in dry spots of the aquarium. I was just wondering because all the fishes seems to be normal. Weird, this post went to some other topic.
 

docjames

Member
Thanks DaveK. But sometimes when I see something wrong, I can not add anything to treat the fish due to the ATS. It does have its downside.
 
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