How will bta attach to LR

[ScottT1980]

I agree with Ink and crak. Dingo was not flaming. Is he getting told not to speak the cold , hard truth? I hought the point of boards was to help people and spread GOOD info.... This gentleman or lady would be far better off picking up a reefkeeping book and spending 2 days reading it. With that said.

The content of his post was dead on but the delivery, as previously stated, was abbrassive and insulting. There are ways to convey the Truth without being insulting or telling someone to "get a clue." We are all very passionate about the well-being of our inhabitants as well as the ecosystem from which they came but at the same time, the only way to convince someone else of this very ideology, is to speak with rationality and with tact. Once an insult is thrown, then the point is lost and often times, so too is that individual's attention.

We want to keep members, educate them, and make them succesful. I think we are all on the same page here, I just think there are some methods that are more effective than others.

Just a couple of pesos...

FWIW Dingo, I would have not taken any offense to your post at all except for the "get a clue statement." You might not have meant it to be insulting but it had a tinge of arrogance to it when I read it (as it must have with many others). Perhaps just a misinterpretation, nothing more.

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm with Dingo on this. I've held off on posting on this, because if the fellow/gal has NO idea what he/she has, how the heck is she/he gonna care for it? Ignorance is no excuse. Have we all done similar things? You betcha. However, it was plain from the start of this thread that this individual had NO clue, and the statement of "Get a Clue" is right on the mark, and didn't sound to me like a flame, but instead, just a blunt suggestion. Bluntness is considered by many to be a positive thing, rather that beating around the bush, and sugar coating everything.
This person brought home what he/she thought was an anemone, one of the most difficult creatures to care for. This person should buy a good book or two, or at least do some serious research before he/she spends another dime in this hobby.

 

[Hooked]

We want to keep members, educate them, and make them succesful. I think we are all on the same page here, I just think there are some methods that are more effective than others.

Well said Scott.

I think the "tone" of a post can especially sting someone who is already struggling with a problem. If someone feels chastised and never visits the board again--nobody wins.

 

[Dingo]

I'm not backing down on this one. Nope. No way. Maybe it did sting. Maybe he'll leave. But in the back of his mind, swirling around, will be the idea that he should understand what he needs before he buys. And I tell you what, the guy who hasn't bought the thing yet will read that post and think,"Hmmm. Maybe I should research this a bit, because that guy cares."

 

[addict]

Well, if you're really into delivering stinging criticism, I suggest you find a BBS that supports it. Either that or grow up a little and realize that you don't have to act that way to get your point across.

 

[Crakeur]

Originally posted by mick77
remember the saying, it's easier to catch bees with honey rather than vinegar

yeah, but other than bee keepers, who wants to catch bees?

 

[mick77]

They might also have "Man, I like this hobby, but if people are going to chastise my questions, why bother?" swirling back there too. We're all into reefs, we're all into the conservation of the marine ecosystem, and we're all into helping people who have problems or concerns. I just think that teaching rather than lecturing can convey ideas and concerns in a more efficient manner. This is no blast on you Dingo. I've seen your nano and it is one of the best I have seen. I think you have wonderful ideas and information, but I relate you to my 9th grade history teacher. This teacher had me so frustrated, that rather than ask for help, I would try to figure everything out for myself. I felt that this teacher was unapproachable even though I desperately needed help. I simply wasn't comfortable with all the negative feedback. That's just me and everybody is different, but I've found in my line of work if you can convey your ideas in a positive nature, people are more likely to take your advice and will feel more open to discussion. Let's sum this up: The person who started this thread obviously doesn't know what it takes to create a captured reef environment (who of us did when we first started). Let's help this person to better understand all aspects of reef keeping and conservation. If this same person then still continues with unwise reef keeping practices then let the negativities flow.

 

[mick77]

True Crakeur, unless some one has some sort of wierd bee fetish.

 

[ScottT1980]

Where is mredman when you need him. He is the levity king...

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[addict]

Great post Mick... I agreed with everything you said up until the last sentence:

If this same person then still continues with unwise reef keeping practices then let the negativities flow.

This suggests that you have to be negative to let the person know what they're doing is 'wrong'... in fact it is something which can still be handled positively.
Face it, all of us make mistakes from time to time, no matter the amount of experience we have. There's also quite a few of us that try to fly in the face of conventional wisdom and keep the 'difficult to keep' species in the hopes that we can succeed where many others have failed.
What may seem 'unwise' could also be the next rung in the ladder of success... without risk takers, who's going to advance the hobby?
And just because somebody has a nice tank doesn't give them the authority to berate others who are just starting out. Were it not for the positive support I received when starting my own tank I probably would have made many more mistakes, and killed a lot more innocent creatures...
Just food for thought.

 

[LuckyInk]

Uh, in the grand scheme of things what Dingo said wasn't that bad folks. Who is to say that the demise of the coral wasn't that much more offensive to our fellow reefers? I know I was kinda miffed...
And as you can see, the mud throwing has begun...
Reefer addict, I doubt Dingo ment ANY malice in his post, and asking him to grow up or leave is only fueling an already firey discussion. That is not to say your points are not well taken, because they are!
Dingo, we (obviously) pride ourselves on be the furthest thing from Reef Central as possible. While I saw nothing in your post that was offensive, perhaps comments that *could* offend the light hearted should be left out. Not telling you what to do! Just making a suggestion. (When in fact, I got a kick out of your response as I raised my fist in a Black Panther-esk way and said "Right on bortha' man.)

 

[addict]

Hrm... I guess the pendulum swung back in my direction and now I'm being misinterpreted.

What I meant by 'find a BBS that supports it' meant just that... if he feels the need to post stinging criticism then it's best that he post that type of comment somewhere else. Hope that's more clear now. :columbo:

Also, the 'grow up' comment may have been 'slightly' out of line, but no more so than his 'Do some research and get a clue' statement.

I feel that if he had not meant his post to be a scathing comment, he would not have followed it up with:

I'm not backing down on this one. Nope. No way. Maybe it did sting. Maybe he'll leave.

That's when I decided to tell him to grow up a little.

I'm going to sit out the rest of this thread... don't want to get myself into any hot water.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

OK, Here come the police!

I have moved this thread to Off Topic because the Moderators don't want to see this agrumentive diatribe on the front page.

There is no issue here. If you can't say nice things don't post, period. Get a clue, get a life , etc. are unacceptable forms of communication. We will not tolerate those acidic tones. I already stated the information was very good, but the delivery needed a little work.

We have members and visitors with varying levels of experience and everybody should be accorded civil tones. What you do reflects directly on Reef Sanctuary and we have from day one worked very hard to promote a safe haven for all to enjoy this hobby in a friendly atmosphere. Reef Sanctuary will continue to promote the safe haven and that is the reason I have waded in in this manner. I believe everyone can share their considerable reefing knowledge in that manner and if you choose not to, their will be consequences for your actions.

This is the big warning shot across the bow. Let's get back to the business of dispensing good reef related information in a charitable manner.

 

[dickie52]

I thought the "grow up" comment was a bit harsh....

 

[birdman204]

I think you flaunting us with beautiful Purple People Eaters is harsh... Can we get that avatar removed!!!

Ok so he *hardly* got flamed. If he did research , he would "getaclue"(not to be mean here,just using it in context) as to how to take care of the animal. I don't think he is upset about it or he may have retorted..... The fact that people are being nice is ok, but I think they need to be little more firm in the delivery. SERIOUSLY urging people to do research is not a bad thing. You can look at a book in the store to see what you might be buying and how to take care of it.
FWIW Craig is right , this is now off topic, nobody is even offering to help the d00d anymore, we're just filling up the thread....... I know some links to SW tank setup and maintainence would be good as well as a few links on lighting.....

Oh and I think Dingo needs to adopt my signature....

 

[caja]

Originally posted by birdman204
The fact that people are being nice is ok, but I think they need to be little more firm in the delivery. SERIOUSLY urging people to do research is not a bad thing. You can look at a book in the store to see what you might be buying and how to take care of it.

Nice will only go so far. When someone makes a purchase without any thought as to what they are purchasing let alone the care required for such an animal in my opinion, that person should be made aware of the mistake they have made. Making nice and telling them it's okay when it clearly isn't, is not going to teach that person responsibility. This is a serious hobby and making light of it only leads to mistakes and failure. I don't quite understand why this is being allowed here.

Bird, way back when, when I began my nano adventure, before I purchased any books to have at home, I spent countless hours reading and researching online. I stalked the LFS and reef store looking and learning. If I saw something I was unfamiliar with I walked over to the shelf, pulled off the appropriate book and read up on it. Not once was I ever approached by the store's staff telling me to put the book down. I was questioned once whether I needed help and I just explained that I was looking up info on a particular animal that they had for sale.

Ask questions, read research, ask again.

For god's sake don't enable people to continue to make stupid mistakes.

 

[Crakeur]

I wonder if y'all would be upset if someone posted on a message board that they just bought a spider monkey at the local pet store and "could anyone tell me what I should feed the monkey? also, what should I do about it during the day, when I am at work/school etc.? oh, and do they need a bed to sleep in at night?"

when the monkey dies due to malnutrition, do y'all chalk it up to a learning experience?

Doubt it.

 

[LuckyInk]

Yeah and when the monkey is bad, do I spank it?
(couldn't resist!)

 

[Crakeur]

nothing wrong with spanking the monkey.

assuming it needs it.

although excessive spanking can harm the monkey's skin so you should either limit said spankings or use some kind of lotion on the monkey to minimize the lingering effects.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

I'm glad to see a little tongue-in-cheek jocularity here.

I've just gone back and read all the posts. First off, do we all remember the Tetra clip that came out right after the Finding Nemo film? A blonde gal takes about a 10 gallon tank, fills it with water, adds some destress tablets, and plops a tang and clown fish in and says "you too can have a salt water fish tank". As ridiculous as that is, how many unsuspecting folks have that image of what is required to have a salt water tank?

Let's review the facts. If dcbackup is for real and not just trolling for some giggles, then this situation is pretty sad. All five of dcbackup's posts at this forum have been to this thread.

This person went to an LFS and sold him a 10 gallon tank, a 10 watt light, and a $40 coral after only ten days. The $40 branching frogspawn was sold as a 6 headed BTA. This person turned 21 on November 30th of 2003. It is not out of the realm of possibility that a 21 year old got taken to the cleaners by an LFS.

Now we all know that this series of events is a certain death warrant for the coral. We can assign a certain amount of responsibility to DC for practicing good animal husbandry, but the fact is we don't know what we don't know, and if this person relied solely on the LFS - the supposed expert, it is not right to use terms like "grow up" or "get a clue". If you really have those feelings then either don't post or take it up in a PM and not in a reef related thread.

The real bad guy here is the LFS if the facts are in deed true. If you folks are still going to argue the merits of using acidic comments I will close this thread.

I would love to hear from DC and have them assure us this is on the square.

:smirk: