Hi folks! Been a long time. Big decisions ahead...

TomV

Active Member
Hi folks.

It's been ages since I posted here. I've been kinda flatlining about my reefkeeping hobby for the past year. It has been so disappointing for me.

Now, if you don't want to read my approaching whiny post, stop reading right now. ;) But, if you're a glutton for punishment or would like to lend an ear to my woes, please read on. :)

Well, here's the deal. I've been keeping reef tanks for several years now. A couple of years ago, I had 2 awesomely thriving reef tanks. I had the most beautiful fish and soft corals. Everything was going...uh.. swimmingly.

Then it happened.

It was February, and we had a freak ice storm and subsequent power outage. The dolts who run our state power company (PSNH) had even more dolt-ish people contracted to work for them to restore our part of the state to operational status. But these idiots left our town without checking to see if all the streets (namely the one I live on) had power restored. If they had done their job, we would have had power back on, like the REST of our town, in 24 hours. But, nope, that wasn't to be. They didn't get back to us until 2 and a half days later! :waa: So, I got to watch my corals dissolve and all my little friends slowly die.

My tanks have never fully recovered from that. I ended up converting my 29 gallon Reef to Freshwater, and it's been very successful at making fish grow huge! I tried to rebuild the 55 gallon by taking all the live rock from the 29 gallon and combining it. A lot of cleaning later, and a couple months for the parameters to get back to normal, and I was ready to go again. I got 2 Sergeant Major Damsels and they lived TOO long! In fact, one is still living and has grown the size of an adult palm. (Hand Palm, not Tree Palm! :D ) I got a Clarkii Clown, a Maroon Clown, an Algae Blenny, and a Scooter Blenny. (These were all added gradually and not all at once, OF COURSE!). Things seemed to be going ok. On a trip to Petco, I spied a Purple Tang that had Lateral Line Disorder. He looked miserable to be at Petco and no one wanted to buy him. I made a deal with the manager there and took the tang home for a discounted price. It got to be a good size, most of the lateral line disorder disappeared, and he's pretty much thriving today!

So, there are the good things about my Reefkeeping. Now, here comes the disillusionment.

Well, as far as the fish go, I lost the Scooter Blenny and the Algae Blenny after a year and a half. Kinda bummed me out, but I'm used to fish staying around for a year and then taking off to the Reef in the sky. But, I have NEVER been able to get a handle on my Phosphate and high Nitrate problem. I believe this is why just about NONE of the corals I have bought for the tank do well at all. Every single coral I have bought has dissolved. Hundreds of dollars down the drain each time.

Now, here's the situation. Yes, I use our local tap water. We live way out in the country and I am sure it has something of a nitrate content. However, I used this same water before and my tank was thriving (before the power outage.) I could never afford to go to the store and buy RO water all the time (My tank water evaporates at the rate of a gallon and a half a day!--is that normal? The Saltwater evaporates much faster than the fresh.)

So, I am at a complete loss as to what could be wrong. cnfzd:

Should I go all out and but some kind of RO filter for my water? It would be a huge hassle to go out and buy 10 gallons of RO water each week because the stores that have the water around here never have it in stock consistently. Sometimes you can find it, sometimes not.

No matter how the corals hate my water, the fish are practically thriving in it! I'm at a loss to explain that one. Even the Tang is doing great! Everyone is happy and eats like hogs!

But, the corals won't stay alive! I don't get it! I don't want to spend another several hundred dollars on nice corals just to have them dissolve. :(

Also, I seem to have a pretty good Sponge and Pod population. The Sponges in my tank are white and are either branching sponges or ball shaped sponges.

I put a AC 500 DIY refugium on the tank and it has done very well. But, the Nitrates WILL NOT go down. I tried some Kent Products to reduce the Phosphates and Nitrates (Stuff you put in a bag inside a chamber on the Fuge) and Chemi=Pure stuff, etc. Nothing seems to work.

I thought it might be the lighting, so I picked up a nice MH light setup off of eBay. No difference with the corals. I was using straight Power Compacts before (in the pre-disaster setup) and the soft corals were multiplying like mad. Should I scrap the MH and go back to straight PC again? I am using a mix now. 100 watts PC, 175 watts MH 14000k.

I want to have what I had before the disaster. But, it seems that at every turn, the corals just die off --- even mushrooms!!

It's disappointing and I am at a crossroads. Should I just give up on corals and run a straight FOWLR like it's been? I desperately want the tons of Shrooms I used to have. And the wonderful big Finger Leather I had. :( :waa:

Well, if you've read this far, thank you! I hope someone can come along and help me figure this out.
 

Melanie

Well-Known Member
Tom, that was a great introduction and welcome back to RS! We'd love to see some photos of your set ups.

I'm sorry to hear about the power outage killing off all of your corals. Stories like that keep reminding me to make sure I have my plan ready. Two years ago we were without power for 2 weeks after hurricane Wilma. Note to self: make hubby check generator and replace batteries in emergency air pump.

Here is a link to RO/DI units: Water Purification: Aquarium Reverse Osmosis Systems
You might also find a cheaper one on ebay or craigslist. At $150 it is well worth it considering what you have spent on corals and it's less money in the long run than buying bottled water. Have you tested your tap water btw?

How much LR do you have in the tank? That can help with the nitrates if you have 1 - 2 lbs. per gallon of water. Frequent water changes can help dilute the trates but they will still build up over time unless you identify the problem causing it.

For the phosphate problem, you could use a multi-prong approach. Use the RO/DI unit, soak/rinse your food before feeding, and hook up a phosban reactor.

Also, are your tests old? I had 4 year old tests and they consistently gave me off readings. If so, pick up a new kit at your LFS or on line. People here at RS seem to prefer Salifert for accuracy but I use another brand that came with a reef testing kit.

Regarding the MH lights. From what I have read and in my own experience, softies like mushrooms don't need or want MH lights. Although IMHO, I don't think the lights are the problem with the corals dissolving and it's more likely water quality for the reasons you stated.
 

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Welcome back to RS!
Glad you are giving it another try.
We really need to see some test paramaters and tank set up parameters before even making a guess as to what has gone wrong.
While shrooms don't need mh lights mine took off and got huge when I added my MH lights so I don't think the light is the problem.
What kind of corals have you tried and what happened to them?
What is your fish list?
Sorry I have so many questions.
Welcome back!
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
SO! It begins again with TomV. It's great to see you back buddy. I will read your post from top to bottom when i get home from work. :)
 

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Welcome back Tom. Melanie and Lynn have given you some good advice. You obviously feel (or know) that you have a nitrate problem and appear to be leaning toward purchasing your own RO/DI filter. I would encourage you to do so. We probably could help you more if we knew your parameters. However, knowing that your nitrates are elevated, have you checked your source water? Could you be overfeeding? How often and how much water are you changing? Do you have any external filters that could have gone biological? Are you running any external biological filters (canister, wet/dry, sponge, etc)?

Also, how large is your fuge? Does it have a DSB? Is it planted?
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
:hallo: Hi Tom! Good to see you again~

Keep in mind that municipalities often change the way they process raw water into drinking water; maybe something has changed with yours?
I used tap water for years with only slight algae issues and my corals/fish thrived.

Since only your corals are ailing and your fish are doing fine, I would suspect the high nitrates and possibly incorrect temp, salinity, ca, alk, or magnesium.

Please post your tank's full parameters so we can determine what needs adjusting.
Also can you test your tap water's parameters too?
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
Ahh temp could cause a "melt" in a hurry. Whatever is happening or has happened should be fairly easy to pinpoint once we get started in the right direction.

Welcome back and don't get discouraged. It's all about the journey and not the end result. Maybe we can ALL learn from this one.

Allen :)
 

AQTCJAK

RS Sponsor
Welcome Aboard again Tom. My question is your sand bed still sandy or has some of the sand become like concrete & hard is so this will also keep the nitrate level up there. An Ro/DI system as others have staed will help tremedously as well
 

vdituri

Well-Known Member
Welcome back.
Get questions here. Karma's coming to Melanie. (she posted first guys) :)
If you added MH has that pushed your temp up?
But also, I would definitely go with RO/DI filter.
There could be something else in the water you are not even testing for that could be affecting your corals. You just never know what is making its way into your water.
Hope we can get your tank back to it's glory days.
 

TomV

Active Member
OK.. MANY thanks to you all for the help, advice, and encouragement so far! I am starting to get motivated again on this!

Well, I did some tests and here are the results (and most likely the causes). Now, remember, I have been discouraged, so I got lazy!:drool:

PH - 7.3-7.5 :bugout:
Alk - around 150-160ppm :(
Nitrite - 0 :)
Nitrate - 165ppm :bugout:

Salinity 1.026


I think I still have my phosphate test kit around here somewhere. I'll have to dig it out. But, I'm sure the phosphates are up there if the Nitrates are at those ridiculous levels! I saw some plans on a couple of websites for a DIY Denitrator. Would that work?

I have some Seachem Marine Buffer (ph to 8.3), I guess I better go get some RO water and start using it, eh?

As for my tank temp, my house doesn't have Air Conditioning. So, in the summer, it gets hot upstairs at times. On those days, I don't run the MH, only the PC lights. And when I do run my MH lights, I only run them for 4-6 hours a day.

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot! I have around 80lbs of live rock in the tank (probably closer to 90). There are TONS of feather dusters in the tank as well. I probably have thousands of them! There is one rock that is completely covered with them! They are all over the inside of the Fuge as well. So, that's a somewhat good sign, right?
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
I would not use a denitrator in your case but instead use water changes, water changes, water changes and more water changes. That will fix not only the nitrAte issue but will also bring your alk and ph up where it should be.
 

Dentoid

Smile Maker
PREMIUM
Hey Tom, sorry for all your troubles. The road to recovery is just around the corner. If you did a 50% WC with SW that was mixed with RO/DI water your nitrates would go down to 83ppm. Then if you did another 50% WC your nitrates would go down to 42ppm. Then a third 50% WC they'd be down to about 20ppm. In a 55 gallon tank, 3-20gallon WC's over 3 days would bring it down significantly.

With nitrates like that, corals are not going to thrive. Also your pH is significantly low. The recommended range is 8.0-8.4. Although a stable low pH is better than a fluctuating one for sure.

As for the denitrator, they are a pain in the butt and difficult to make work efficiently. They also take time to build up the anaerobic bacteria that are responsible for the breakdown of nitrate. Water changes are your best, and fastest, bet. Make sure you test your tap water for nitrate if you can not use RO/DI water. Best of luck to you my friend!:D
 

TomV

Active Member
Thanks, Woody, I'll be doing that soon. I gotta get some RO water today sometime.

And Lynn, here is the fish list: Purple Tang, Sergeant Major Damsel, Yellow Backed Bluefin Damsel, Clarkii Clown, Maroon Clown.

There are about 10 snails or so, all my hermits aged and passed, a Brown Serpent Star which has been with the tank for years, and a decent sized Limpet. Plus, the aformentioned thousands of dusters. There are a lot of sponges in the tank-- all white ones of varying types.

Corals: 5 or so small Ricordea and some brown button polyps.
 

TomV

Active Member
Also, how large is your fuge? Does it have a DSB? Is it planted?

The Fuge is an Aquaclear 500 DIY fuge. I used plans I found on nano-reef.com a long time ago. It's loaded with Chaeto, Dusters, and every pod known to man! It has a DSB in it.
 

TomV

Active Member
I just changed 20% of the water with some RO water I just bought.

So, gradually, I hope to get everything back to normal.
 

TomV

Active Member
Another note: for some reason, pods REALLY LOVE this tank and the Fuge. So, I guess for breeding Pods, the Fuge is a success! lol!

EDIT: Oh, once again, forgot to add, I picked up a big clean up crew for the tank a year ago. They've all pretty much died, probably due to the nitrate and ph issues. But, there is one survivor that I had no idea, until yesterday, was still alive. An Emerald Crab. I didn't know he was alive until I saw a big green claw moving some things in the tank. LoL!
 

TomV

Active Member
UPDATE: Just found my Phosphate test kit I purchased not too long ago.

Did a test and.... oh yeah... loaded with phosphates. The color went up to the highest on the scale rather quickly. (10ppm)
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
It looks like you got all the advice i would say so i will just hit you with some karma and watch the progress. It's really good to see you back Tom!
One thing i do want to mention. the refugium might be locked down with all kinds of problems. If you don't see any changes over the next few weeks i would consider completely cleaning it out and starting it over from scratch. The pods you have in the tank will re-populate it after a total cleaning out.
 

TomV

Active Member
Thanks for the response, Frankie! It seems like everyone else forgot about me. :(

What I am gonna do is get a handle on getting the Nitrates and Phosphates down. Then, I will check and see what happens with the Fuge as a result--whether it slows the process of reducing the nitrates, or helps it.
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Thanks for the response, Frankie! It seems like everyone else forgot about me. :(

What I am gonna do is get a handle on getting the Nitrates and Phosphates down. Then, I will check and see what happens with the Fuge as a result--whether it slows the process of reducing the nitrates, or helps it.
Not true Tom! these are just all new people now! LOL. Hey I saw Woody welcomed you back.
 
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