Dry shipped live rock

im gonna have to say probably not, if its dry its as good as base rock that is dead. your gonna have to seed it with live rock to get it to spread and become GOOD again. other wise you cant grow a tree in cement
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
Was it shipped over-night? Shipped DRY will cause a LOT of die-off but there will be some life left within the rock. I don't think I've be pleased paying "Live Rock" pricing for DRY rock! Heck I'm not happy with it's shipped just "Moist" let alone dry.
 
it was shipped dry, and standard ground shipping...ive got it in a bucket of salt water with an air stone...

how long should it be in there before i can put it in my tank
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
To clarify things, when you say "dry" do you mean that the rock was damp but was not shipped in water, or do you mean "dry" in that the rock had no moisture in it or on it at all?

It quite common to ship live rock in a large plastic shipping bag, with out additional water. However, I'd still expect it to be shipped overnight, not ground,

Even shipped via ground, there should still be a lot of live stuff still on it. However the rock will need to cure before you add it to your tank. This would be true of any live rock, Curing will take several weeks to several months, depending upon the rock,
 
Paypal dispute is now open, Patrick has been emailed.

Like i know there would be some die off.... but not everything dead!
 
shipped from ottawa, so i cant ship it back to him, and im not paying for shipping twice.

the thing that really burns my ass, is that this is a sponsor of r/s... i thought he would be reliable, let alone take a month for me to get it, and then burn me with it being shipped dry.

I have been professional every time ive talked to him, never getting confrontational or anything.

ive requested all but $20 of my money back, because I can get base rock for $2/lbs and if i wanted base rock, i would have ordered it.
 

reefman78

Member
im with the rest of the ppl in this thread i would have been pissed. I recently ordered lr from fosters and smith, couldnt be happier. Sorry gl
 
dave, when i say dry, i mean shipped in a styrofoam container, with no water what so ever, no wet towel, nothing, not even any condensation on the foam...
i picked up the rock and it wasnt even damp.

and to cure it, whats the process?
 

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Also, you live in the US right? Bear in mind that there could have been hold ups at customs, shipping delays, etc, that could have caused the water to evaporate from the rocks. Live rock is rarely ever shipped submerged in water, although it does usually have newspaper or something around it to keep moisture in.
 
the email i recieved -

Lyle,
We are sorry that you are unhappy with the shipping method you chose for the liverock shipped out to you.

Your live rock was shipped in a medical grade, thick and sealed styrofoam container which would maintain a damp and wet environment to maintain optimal diversity on rock.

We did mention to you upon your refusal to pay for the recommended shipping that the rock would be shipped out via Canada Post and some die-off would occur and the rock would go through a mini-cycle - which is normal for any live rock shipped not fully submersed in water for three days (your chosen shipping option).

The industry standard for shipping live rock is in wax boxes, with no paper, from Fiji. Your rock was shipped in a sealed styrofoam container to provide an optimal damp environment for your rock - I am sorry that you were insistent on a shipping method which is not optimal for maintaining live rock diversity, especially in cool weather. This is why we repeatedly encouraged the proper shipping method of overnight shipping as is outline on the web-site at;
Ottawa Inverts
.
Please also note that on this page it clearly states that "Shipping estimates are calculated at the time of checkout. In the event that shipping rates vary from the estimate calculated at the time of checkout Ottawa Inverts reserves the right to adjust your invoice accordingly. In the event that this should occur, Ottawa Inverts will hold your order and contact you immediately" Please note that when we contacted you regarding this shipping you argued that LIVEROCK should not be considered LIVESTOCK and therefore would not pay $85 for overnight shipping and wanted standard delivery service from Canada Post applied to this order of Liverock.

Please also note that at the bottom of the live rock order page it does clearly state that additional charges may apply.
Ottawa Inverts

Please note that your rock is by no means base rock. Base rock has a completely different porousity and weight to the rock you were shipped. Your rock will go through a mini-cycle after being delivered, as weill any rock being transported for three days, not fully submersed in water.

If you are unhappy with your rock we will take the rock back and provide you with a refund for the livestock (not a normal policy as it also states on our web-site). If this is the option you would like to choose to take, we would ask that the rock is shipped back to us tomorrow via Canada Post, in the same Styrofoam cooler, properly sealed.

I have no problem discussing this matter on the open forum with you as we have cleared advised you numerous times of our livestock shipping policy upon your order being placed.

Patrick FosterLyle,
We are sorry that you are unhappy with the shipping method you chose for the liverock shipped out to you.

Your live rock was shipped in a medical grade, thick and sealed styrofoam container which would maintain a damp and wet environment to maintain optimal diversity on rock.

We did mention to you upon your refusal to pay for the recommended shipping that the rock would be shipped out via Canada Post and some die-off would occur and the rock would go through a mini-cycle - which is normal for any live rock shipped not fully submersed in water for three days (your chosen shipping option).

The industry standard for shipping live rock is in wax boxes, with no paper, from Fiji. Your rock was shipped in a sealed styrofoam container to provide an optimal damp environment for your rock - I am sorry that you were insistent on a shipping method which is not optimal for maintaining live rock diversity, especially in cool weather. This is why we repeatedly encouraged the proper shipping method of overnight shipping as is outline on the web-site at;
Ottawa Inverts
.
Please also note that on this page it clearly states that "Shipping estimates are calculated at the time of checkout. In the event that shipping rates vary from the estimate calculated at the time of checkout Ottawa Inverts reserves the right to adjust your invoice accordingly. In the event that this should occur, Ottawa Inverts will hold your order and contact you immediately" Please note that when we contacted you regarding this shipping you argued that LIVEROCK should not be considered LIVESTOCK and therefore would not pay $85 for overnight shipping and wanted standard delivery service from Canada Post applied to this order of Liverock.

Please also note that at the bottom of the live rock order page it does clearly state that additional charges may apply.
Ottawa Inverts

Please note that your rock is by no means base rock. Base rock has a completely different porousity and weight to the rock you were shipped. Your rock will go through a mini-cycle after being delivered, as weill any rock being transported for three days, not fully submersed in water.

If you are unhappy with your rock we will take the rock back and provide you with a refund for the livestock (not a normal policy as it also states on our web-site). If this is the option you would like to choose to take, we would ask that the rock is shipped back to us tomorrow via Canada Post, in the same Styrofoam cooler, properly sealed.

I have no problem discussing this matter on the open forum with you as we have cleared advised you numerous times of our livestock shipping policy upon your order being placed.

Patrick Foster
 
the email i sent

I understand that it was shipped in a styrofoam container, however it was not damp or wet. I was totally, 100% willing to accept the additional shipping charges. However, it took over a month to get the rock shipped out. While on your website, it gave multiple options for shipping. And one of the options was for livestock, and said $6.00. Obviously I chose that method.

I called you the very next day, you said we would hash out the details shortly after, again I was willing to work with you on them.
You said you would call me the next week. I did not receive an email, phone call or anything. And for a couple weeks, I simply could not get a hold of you.

When I finally did (after opening a post on reef sanctuary) you stated that actual shipping would be $10 more then the original, and due to the delay I asked that you cover it. You agreed. Another week went by with no word on shipping. So I called, and well apparently, you forgot.

So I called to remind you of what happened. You said it was "on the truck and ready to go" but then, after not mentioning it, at all for the past month, that your livestock rate was significantly higher for shipping. Again, I understand that it was a mistake in the first place. But really, if it was that huge of a difference, why wouldn't you quote me the full amount in your original email.

Also I understand the fact that live rock does have some significant die off. However, I have never received any in this fashion, it has always AT LEAST had paper towel, soaked in salt water over it. You say you repeatedly advised me of the proper shipping method, I am curious as to where I was when this was done. As I was advised that Canada Post was just fine for shipping, by you the first time.

Let me also note to you, that you did not contact me, at all. Yes your website states "Ottawa Inverts will hold your order and contact you immediately." Again, I was NOT contacted by you. I was always the one who made the effort to contact you, via phone or email. When you said I argued with you, let me make something totally clear. I did not, in any sense of the word try to tell you how to ship my package. I called you this past Monday, you were very confrontational, and condescending, you told me essentially that I was wrong. I know Liverock is considered Livestock, never would dispute that. I was simply stating that you quoted me a price VIA email, that you would cover all extra shipping charges.

Lets take a look at what you sent me


I am going to calculate shipping costs for you, but I just wanted to see if you were interested in more rock first than the 10 lbs that you had ordered.

Here is a shipping quote from Canada Posts to you for 10lbs of live rock via Canada Post

Rate Summary
Base Price $15.32
Coverage* $ Update $0.00
Fuel Surcharge $1.03
Options $0.00
Tax $0.82
Total $17.17

This is where you quoted me shipping, which would be $11.17 over what I paid.

I suggested you cover it, due to the delay. You gladly agreed.
So thinking about that, why would you pick a sub par shipping method, to quote me? Again, I was 100% willing to work on the shipping amount with you, and could only go by what You, quoted me.

So let me make this totally clear. I never refused to pay the additional shipping as you are accusing me of doing. You can see from my Paypal dispute, what it is I want, due to the fact that I can get base rock (in the same condition as this rock) from my LFS for $2/lbs. 10lbs@$2/lbs = 20.00

If you feel the need to discuss this on the open forum, feel free.

Here is the link.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...m-discussion/52011-dry-shipped-live-rock.html

- Lyle
 

PFoster

RS Sponsor
Lyle,
The rock was shipped in a thick styrofoam container to ensure it stayed at a reasonable temperature and humidity while in it's 3 days in transit on it's way to you.

When this order was initially placed we contacted you and let you know that we did not have the liverock in stock and offered to either a) refund your order completely or b) contact your when we had the liverock in stock you chose option b), to contact you once the liverock was instock.

When we spoke again while we were at MACNA we let you know that our liverock order had been postponed until after MACNA and we would contact you once the liverock came instock and again offered to either a) refund your order completely or b) contact your when we had the liverock in stock. Again, you chose option b).

The weather turned cold and because of the 3 day shipping option you chose we let you know we didn't feel that it was the best shipping option again for your rock, again encouraging you to chose the overnight shipping option for livestock. Being as you were not interested in this option we let you know your rock would be shipped this past Monday where it would not be waiting in a warehouse over a weekend.

For those of you enquiring, we shipped out to Lyle in a sealed styrofoam cooler - we ship liverock out in regularily to clients in overnight methods. We took the rock from the vat, placed it in the cooler, added some extra water and sealed the container so that it was air tight, although there would have been no water visible to Lyle upon opening the box, I find it hard to believe that the rock was bone dry.

You have asked when you were told that it costs $85 to ship livestock via overnight air - every time we spoke to you on the phone, up to and including right before it was shipped out again we advised that this is the method prefered. You were given a shipping quote from Canada Post after you refused to upgrade to overnight shipping and yet we still encouraged overnight shipping until it shipped out. As a retailer, why would we choose to open ourselves up to this type of situation - this is the ONLY circumstance where any livestock has NOT been shipped via Airline or next day UPS. Even in next day UPS we advise that this is not our recommendation as it is not optimal for livestock. Please note that when we contacted you regarding this shipping you argued that LIVEROCK should not be considered LIVESTOCK and therefore would not pay $85 for overnight shipping and wanted standard delivery service from Canada Post applied to this order of Liverock.


As a direct importer of Walt Smith Premium Grade Live Rock I can guarentee you it ships to us from Fiji in Wax boxes, no paper and crabs are still crawling around on it. Which is why we pay for a direct flight to us, not sea freight. Standard air freight shipping from Walt Smith typically takes 5-8 days to Canada, but we pay an additional fee so that we can receive it in approx 30hrs to ensure the life remains on the rock and encouraged you to do the same.

As we did not correspond via e-mail I have no way to proove when we first told you that overnight shipping was the option we prefer (although again it is on our web-site as the method used for shipping livestock) the last conversation I had with you before the liverock was shipped out was in the presence of a collegue who did hear me ask if you were sure that you didn't want to ship it overnight as Canada Post is NOT our prefered method of shipping for livestock.

Choosing to keep the rock AND filing a claim for the rock with Paypal is NOT an honest way of doing business. As other members here have posted, the rock will experience die-off, but there is still life on it.

Additionally, there has never been a $6 livestock shipping option on our webs-te. The rate was a table rate for a special on drygoods (which has now been removed) as we informed you of the first time we spoke on the phone. Please see the below link for our livestock shipping policy;
Ottawa Inverts
 

PFoster

RS Sponsor
We have already contacted you via e-mail and offered the below offer but will post it here aswell;
If you are unhappy with your rock we will take the rock back and provide you with a refund for the livestock (not a normal policy as it also states on our web-site). If this is the option you would like to choose to take, we would ask that the rock is shipped back to us tomorrow via Canada Post, in the same Styrofoam cooler, properly sealed.
 

nightfire76

Active Member
like them to replace it? if so you can see if they would send you a that replacement,plus something extra to cover the extra shipping you had to pay to send it back to him
 
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