Daniel's tank upgrade to RSM 250

[Danreef]

Very sorry to hear Daniel, I have never had great success with sps corals - I have always attributed it to me not keeping my tank stable enough...

One of the best reef keepers on RS for SPS corals is Bryan (PSU4ME) - there are several RS members with long term sps success, but Bryan been keeping them for several years and has been a RS member since 2003 with great sps success - if this helps any, this is who I would look to for advise... GlennF another, but his methods are very different, thought very successful too.

and as I know you know... you can have a very beautiful reef tank without sps corals, don't be to discouraged & keep on posting ! All the best mate ! Here hoping someone like Byran can offer you some good sps advise. Here a link to his thread...

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chronicles/74274-bryans-120-reef-16.html#post1284983

Thank you Glenn !!!

Actually I have 2 frags of Bryan's corals growing in my tank. I have been twice at his house. His tank is very beautiful.

Sorry to hear that Daniel. FYI: Birdsnests, in my experience, are difficult to keep happy long-term. They grow quickly and get to a large size look beautiful for about 8 months, and then they seem to become susceptible to all kinds of things. I think it has to do with lack of flow making it to tissue in the center of the "nest." I lose my large colonies after about 8-12 months. Then I start over with a frag, and they look nice again. Maybe try some of the hardier Acros and Montipora instead.

Weird that your Nitrates are not going down after dosing with NoPox. That stuff worked like magic in my tank.

Thank you Lexinverts !!!

I have heard that bird nests growth fast, but they also die fast if there is an issue in the tank.......who knows. I have heard also that they are very strong and easy guys to have for beginners.

My Montiporas are also dying. The big Monti that was the central piece of my tank is gone and 2 small ones too.

 

[Danreef]

Pictures are better than thousand words;

TANK ON 8/17/2014



TANK TODAY 2/2/2015



CORALS DYING

SEE RTN IN THE CENTER


LEFT OVER OF THE PURPLE BIRD NEST (LOOK FOR IT IN THE 8/17/14 PICTURE CENTER TO THE LEFT OF TANK)


SEE WHITE SKELETON


AFTER ALL THE FIGHT, HE IS FINALLY DYING


RTN IN THE BASE


TIPS WITH RTN AND ALGAE


SEE ZOAS/PALIES CLOSED (THIS STARTED AFTER THE CHEMIPURE ELITE/PURIGEN)


SEE THE ASPECT OF THESE PALIES AND RTN IN THE BASE OF THE POLICIPORA THAT I COVERED WITH GLUE IN AN ATTEMPT TO STOP IT.


MORE RTN


MORE RTN


WATCH THIS


Coral have lost their colors due to the nutrients levels in the tank (NO3/PO4). At least is what I have read.

Those pictures are very nice example of the decay of the tank. What had happened ? I do not know.

What I am going do ?....... nothing. I see this as a chain reaction that can't be stop. I need to let it happen and only will survive those that can live in my tank conditions.

It is what it is......

Cheers
Daniel

 

[newo11]

Daniel,

I hate reading this and I know the pain you are going through with your tank. Hang in there!

I personally am if the opinion that birdsnest are not "beginner coral". They are more sensitive than most other SPS (and I have even heard other reefers keep them as an "indicator coral" - ie if the birdsnest starts looking bad than they know they have a problem).

To me - this looks like more than a high phosphate/nitrate issue. It could be biological, could an infection, who really knows?!? I know that it's painful to see however, and I applaud you for the "it is what it is" approach. Your tank will be back with time. Hang in their.

 

[Pat24601]

Daniel,

I hate reading this and I know the pain you are going through with your tank. Hang in there!

I personally am if the opinion that birdsnest are not "beginner coral". They are more sensitive than most other SPS (and I have even heard other reefers keep them as an "indicator coral" - ie if the birdsnest starts looking bad than they know they have a problem).

To me - this looks like more than a high phosphate/nitrate issue. It could be biological, could an infection, who really knows?!? I know that it's painful to see however, and I applaud you for the "it is what it is" approach. Your tank will be back with time. Hang in their.

While I'm just a newbie and I never had a tank as nice as Daniel's, I want to add my support to this. Daniel, I definitely feel your pain here and hope to continue to hear from you after your tank gets back on its feet in one way or another.

 

[Pat24601]

To me - this looks like more than a high phosphate/nitrate issue. It could be biological, could an infection, who really knows?!? I know that it's painful to see however, and I applaud you for the "it is what it is" approach. Your tank will be back with time. Hang in their.

While I have no where near the knowledge of newo11, I've been reading a ton about RTN as a result of Daniels experience and I really agree with this. It definitely sounds like more than a high phosphate/nitrate issue. I see article after article of experiences like this and it seems to basically boil down to no one knows what causes it and it can happen to even the most experienced/talented reefer without warning.

It really sounds like your attitude of let's see where it leads and then pick up the pieces is about the only thing you can do and the healthiest attitude to have.

It sucks, but what can you do?

 

[PSU4ME]

Hey Daniel,
So sorry to hear this. You still using the NSW? Maybe a bad batch or bacteria?

 

[Danreef]

Hey Daniel,
So sorry to hear this. You still using the NSW? Maybe a bad batch or bacteria?

I though about it. I am struggling in my decision to check Reef Cristals. I used it at the start then switched to NSW and all was going great.

One of ours LFS (Archit) sells already prepared reef cristals. The same he use on his tanks, and his display tank is fantastic.

What do you think ?

 

[PSU4ME]

I think a big water change is probably in order to try and flush out whatever is causing the rtn. You can also clip off the good piece and dip in coral rx and throw the other piece away to try and save some pieces.

 

[Danreef]

I think a big water change is probably in order to try and flush out whatever is causing the rtn. You can also clip off the good piece and dip in coral rx and throw the other piece away to try and save some pieces.

Water change with NSW or a different one ?

I am doing the trimming.

Thanks

 

[Pat24601]

I'm still using the NSW. I've really only ever read good things about it. Think that could really be a problem?

 

[Danreef]

I'm still using the NSW. I've really only ever read good things about it. Think that could really be a problem?

Not at all......but at this point I am totally lost on my thoughs.

I was in the house of another big local reefer. More than 2000 G in tanks and almost all SPS. He was the one who told me about the Petco water 1 year ago and, as you, I read the reviews and start to use it. Well he told me to continue with the NSW but it would be better :

- do a 100 % water change in one shoot.

- And if that do not work go bare bottom. Remove all, take the sand, fill tank again with new NSW, and reintroduce rocks and corals.

I am not sure if I have the energy to do the second one. Neither I have the energy to do the first one.

I am so depress with this issue that I really do not know what I want to do, if I want to do something at all.

In all my years of marine fish and later reef keeping it never happened something like this. Yes....I lost corals. But this situation is so strange.

Not all corals are lost yet but is so depressing to see the ones that are dying and I do not know what to do to stop it.

I have to accept that " it is what it is" but that do not meant I stopped thinking in how I can save the tank.

Daniel

Ps: the only fear I have is that the NSW could have some "contamination " that independently of the filtration protocol the company use before selling it, is still there. At the end the water comes from Catalinas Bay and you never know, us, human beings, what we do.

If you are not having any issue, then all is OK.

All my LPS (hammers) are very happy, as well as the 2 leathers I have there. If this tank wasn't full of SPS, probably I will be only worry of the algae growing in the rock.....and that's all. The only softies that have been affected are the zoas and some variety of palies. But zoas, are not easy to keep. They can melt and you do not know why. Probably here is because I am reducing the N/P and they like more dirty tanks..... ??????

 

[CDMSeaLife]

Daniel I'm so sorry to hear about your problems, I know how stressful it must be.

 

[Oxylebius]

It is hard to keep a mixed reef, there are many a post on it. Maybe allelopathy isn't helping the already stressed corals. I agree with cutting off healthy tips, dip them, and throw the rest away. Along with a big water change. Good luck

 

[PSU4ME]

Daniel,
I'd prob go back to RC and stabilize things vs the NSW. You never know the consistency of the cleaning process

 

[Lexinverts]

Daniel, I don't know why I didn't think of this before.

Send your water to Triton labs in Germany. They will tell you what is in your water that shouldn't be. It isn't too expensive and Unique Corals in LA is handling all of the sample transfers. I think that it is 49 bucks for the whole thing.

http://uniquecorals.com/dry-goods/t...t-single-test-vials-with-return-shipping.html

Check out Randy Holmes-Farley's article on Triton tests in Reef2reef. Basically, if you have a contaminant somewhere, like copper, etc... this test will identify it for you.

 

[Danreef]

Hi All

Thank you for your support and the suggestions. I have done a 50% water change this weekend using Reef Crystals.

Corals still struggling to survive and more are dead.

I will continue with the water changes and will start to use again RC salt, just on case. I have added Matrix from Seacherm in the media chamber to increase the surface for anaerobic bacteria growth. I still have a bag there of Chemipure Elite that soon I will remove. I am building an outside refugium. I will see if I can finish it this weekend.

That will be. I want to return to my concept of simplicity. The refugium to take the PO4 out. It is a 10 G tank I had in the basement. If successful I will post the pictures that is better than a 1000 words.

There are SPS that will survive (I hope). But nevertheless, as soon as the tank is stable again and without hair algae, I will not give back and will return to SPS. I am learning from my own failure.

Thanks to all again !!!!

Daniel

 

[PSU4ME]

Hey Daniel, any of the sps from my tank still holding on?

 

[Danreef]

Hey Daniel, any of the sps from my tank still holding on?

Yes all !!!

The strawberry lost the incrustment. Started to lose tissue in the incrustment section. I took it out of the rock, cut the afected section and glued in a frag plug. Before starting my travel yesterday, I looked and the reminder incrustment, in the frag lost the tissue but stopped at the start of the main branch. I also have to cut a secondary branch. The main branch body and a couple of secondary branch were holding and trying to survive. Polyps out but very shorts !!! , not like before that had long polyps extensions.

The Red/cream Acro (forgot the name) did some STN like 1-2 months ago, in the base. It was a small frag so I glued the afected tissue and reglued it to the rock. Since then have done some incrusting over the glue but stopped there. Since then also the polyps have retracted to the point that you do not see anything. But is holding there. No growing, No polyps that can be seen, but is all in one piece with the tissue that looks OK.

The orange coral is still there too. He grew a little when at home then stopped. A fish broke a branch that I glued in another part. It has done a small incrustment and is holding there.

Thanks for asking. At my return home I will post pictures for you.

Keep the finger crossed for the strawberry shortcake Acro.

Daniel

 

[PSU4ME]

Awesome, that is good to hear! They are super strong frags, I rarely lose any!

Good luck

 

[Oxylebius]

Dan - I would continue monitor the water quality and run both carbon and PolyFilter while you deal with this problem. If there is an issue with allelopathy the carbon should take care of it. Polyfilter will adsorb contaminants and other toxic materials in the tank.

I know it is hard and you seem resigned to let it play out, but don't give completely up on it. There are some little things you can do to help save some of the corals that are not yet affected by this problem.

First is to frag any coral tip that hasn't been affected yet. If you have a QT that has not had medicine used in it, then set that up as a frag tank and keep all your new fragged tips in it.

You know that mixed tanks are hard to keep, many reefers do well for a while and then the tank gets wiped out. Some of the issue may be due to allelopathy. As for Rapid Tissue Necrosis (also known as apoptosis), it is a cellular reaction in corals initiated by various stresses such as bacterial infection, temperature, UV radiation, allelopathy, etc. In your particular case, with so much lovely growth of many different corals so close to one another, it is possible that a stinging coral has encroached on another and began the cellular chain reaction in your corals.

That is why when you frag the corals, best to take them out of that environment and into another tank until the DT necrosis is finished. I would suggest for you to quarantine any remaining healthy fragments in a separate tank to isolate the cellular reaction. This would allow for the highest survival rate of your corals while reducing any risk of exposing other healthy SPS corals to this condition.

Old article, but informational on coral disease. And since you are in the medical profession, you may find it interesting and helpful: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/eb/index.php