Clown fish with ich, alternative ways to treat W/out QT tank ?

[Cavinca]

Rubbermaid.
30-40 gallons.
10 bucks...
walmart.

 

[new reefer 03]

its not about the money to him, i f it were i would have it.
he doesnt want to have to "deal" with it.
he thinks it will stink up my room
reson for this is a yearish ago i tried to grow baby brine shrimp, and they stunk. this tank wont stink though, ill take care of it concidering it will have my fish in it!
ill show him this thread maybe tonigh and that may (probably wont) convince him.

 

[new reefer 03]

well, maybe it was! :LOL:
he doesnt want me "waisting" more of my money on my tank, so aparrently i can use the current rubbermade container we have.
my concerns are that i wont be able to see them, and they wont get any light.
i may try to go to petco when my mom gets me from school, without him. i want to see how much 20gs are. maybe i can buy one, and say i lost the receipt. i dont see how a HOB filter plays into a rubbermade container...

i dont have a refracto yet, but its in my cart and i may be able to talk him into getting one for himself...

 

[new reefer 03]

well, maybe it was! :LOL:
he doesnt want me "waisting" more of my money on my tank, so aparrently i can use the current rubbermade container we have.
my concerns are that i wont be able to see them, and they wont get any light.
i may try to go to petco when my mom gets me from school, without him. i want to see how much 20gs are. maybe i can buy one, and say i lost the receipt. i dont see how a HOB filter plays into a rubbermade container...

i dont have a refracto yet, but its in my cart and i may be able to talk him into getting one for himself...

i got the aproval, YAY!

now he doesnt want a refracto, he doesnt test salinity very oftern so why does he care? is this possible without a refracto all the way to 1.009?

thanks for all of the advice everyone! :bow: :smoking:

 

[Jeremy0322]

Well, it is technically possible to get your salinity down that low without one but you wont know when that is. My understanding is if you dont have a refractometer dont even try it, its too dangerous and standard hydrometers are not good accurate enough. You are PROBABLY doing more harm than good trying to hypo with a hydrometer, but thats just my opinion.

 

[michelle9491]

By the time you figure out what you are gonna do they will probably be dead anyway. It's probably too late for hypo b/c they are so stressed, they wont survive it. IMO you are too young & immature to be doing this by yourself. You wont even take the advice of others, so why ask? All I'm gonna say is I'm glad I'm not one of yours or your dads pets. I'm done. :soap: Good luck cause you are gonna need it!

 

[new reefer 03]

By the time you figure out what you are gonna do they will probably be dead anyway. It's probably too late for hypo b/c they are so stressed, they wont survive it. IMO you are too young & immature to be doing this by yourself. You wont even take the advice of others, so why ask? All I'm gonna say is I'm glad I'm not one of yours or your dads pets. I'm done. :soap: Good luck cause you are gonna need it!

Good Bye! :hallo:

its not anything to do with me, or my maturity. its about my dad orderring it for me or not. i understand the treatment im just concerned attempting it all the way with a hydro. i was fine going some of the way with a hydro, but not sure about all of the way. also i did not procrastinate, it was me convincing my dad. im 100% capable of completing the treatment, if, and only if i have the right supplys!

 

[lcstorc]

Fish don't need light. The light in the room is just fine or even a flashlight just so you can see them. You do want a filter of some sort as Lee describes but they are very cheap and can be bought at any pet store including Petco. Either of your choices are going to cost a few dollars. For hypo you need a refractometer which will be extremely useful for years to come. If your father is not checking salinity he is playing with fire. The alternative is to spend the money on copper meds and copper tests. I am not sure which would cost more. Both require many water changes and frequent monitoring. Both are stressful to the fish. Both have high success rates.
The other option would be to ignore the ich and treat just the parasites. Fish have been known to live through ich and develop partial immunity. It is not the best option but if you can minimize stress they can make it at least short term and you could treat them later. A large part of that decision for me would come from how badly they are hit. If they are still eating and breathing normally then I would concentrate on a stress free, high water quality environment while treating the parasites and cycling a qt tank. Then when the qt is cycled put the fish in for they hypo treatment. I would ask for Lee's opinion before taking this route but that is what seems most logical to me the uneducated in fish disease.

 

[new reefer 03]

when i perform hypo then i will have the same delima, refractometer. i may be able to talk him into it, its on sale $20 off that may be all he needs

why do i need to cycle a QT tank? i will ask for lees advice, but just for one more opinion you would recommend not treating for now right? if i get a refracto that changes it, right?

the fish all have "normal behavior" eating, swimming whatnot, and the ick doesnt seem to be reproducing since that one time ( not visible to my human eyes right now )

 

[ZAPCOnj]

god help me......I will throw my hat in the ring one more time..

Cole my advice to you based on your limited resources and what seems a limited amount of parental support.

1. get the rubber maid tub or 20 gal tank. I know you'll ask so i'll just answer it in advance.... either will work and will suit your needs just fine. If you use a Rubber maid tub make sure to mark the tub with your water level.
2. go buy some PVC pipe for the fish to hide in
3. Mix up about 40 gallons of water (yes it's alot of water but you will be using it in the Hospital tank and to replace the water taken from the display tank.)
4. install a powerhead, heater and hob filter if you have one. (DO NOT USE ANY CARBON) Install your light for the fish (they can not be in the dark for a month)
5. siphon the appropriate amount of water to fill about 1/2 of your hospital tank. Fill the rest of the tank with new water (basically a water change for your display tank but don't discard the water)
6. Replace the water taken from the display tank with the new water you mixed in step 3.
7. Remove your ALL OF YOUR fish and place them in the Hospital tank. acclimate as needed
8. After your fish are in the new hospital tank add a product called COPPER SAFE as directed on the bottle. The copper safe treatment will be for a minimum of 45 days and NO LESS. a week or two more if possible.
9. Monitor the water quality in the hospital tank during the treatment. If you do any water changes replace the appropriate amount of copper in to the water as per the bottle's instructions. AT NO TIME DURING THIS TREATMENT ARE YOU TO PLACE ANYTHING IN THE COPPER TANK IN TO THE DISPLAY TANK... NOTHING!.....YES.. I SAID NOTHING.
10. Monitor your fish and try to maintain water quality as to not stress your fish. do a full set of water tests every other day if not EVERY DAY. Perform water changes once a week at a MINIMUM. Take notes or pictures if you can to compare the fish to. make note of when the Ick disappears. count at least 15 days after that and check the condition of the fish. cut back on what you feed your fish. They are now in a smaller environment with LIMITED filtration and EXTRA FOOD and that equals TONS OF WASTE
11. During the Treatment water change your display tank as you would normally. THERE SHOULD BE NO FISH OR CORAL ADDED TO THE TANK WHILE THIS TREATMENT IS BEING DONE... YES... I SAID NO FISH OR CORAL. NOTHING! you should also leave the fish alone as much as possible. No poking prodding stirring the water adding any new fish... provide a nice STRESS FREE environment for them to get better in.

at the end of the copper treatment (minimum 45 days) check out your fish. if they look good and there has been NO resurfacing of the ICK you can consider putting the fish back in to the display tank. also, by this time the ICK in your Display tank should have died off with no hosts. IF YOUR FISH STILL SHOW SIGNS OF ICK YOU NEED TO CONTINUE THE COPPER TREATMENT FOR AN ADDITIONAL 30 DAYS MINIMUM

When you return your fish back to the display tank DO NOT i repeat DO NOT put any of the water from the acclimation or the COPPER tank back in to your display tank. NONE... if you don't have enough water in your Display tank after acclimating go mix some more. after the fish are back in the display tank you can discard the copper water.

If i missed a step someone please chime in.


FTR i recommended the coppersafe product because it's the easiest product to administer and find. petco, petsmart, and almost every LFS would have it.

The only reason i recommend this treatment to you is because it's an easy process to do. the meds are easily available.. it's something that YOU can do and will be a learning process for you. and if anything, you will learn some responsibility for your tank and fish. this will also cause a little less hassle for your parental units.. it may also show them that you are being responsible for your own things and parents like that sort of thing. I am also recommending this process as it is step by step what a friend did in his tank and it cured his ick problem. it has been a good 4 - 5 months since his out break and treatment and the ick has not returned.


by the way.. no one has ask this yet but POST PICS of your fish with the ick on them

 

[ZAPCOnj]

the fish all have "normal behavior" eating, swimming whatnot, and the ick doesnt seem to be reproducing since that one time ( not visible to my human eyes right now )

If you read any of the ICK posts provided you would know that the VISIBLE ICK on fish is when it's pregnant. its like right in the top few paragraphs of his post.....

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html[/url]
Life and Visuals:

1, The parasite has several ‘stages’ in its life cycle. Cyst in aquarium (usually on substrate, decoration, wall, equipment, or rock) ruptures into free-swimming parasites that burrow into fish, grow into a visible white nodule that is ‘pregnant’ with more parasites, that usually falls off the fish to form a cyst that starts the cycle over again.

2. Only time a human can see this parasite with the naked eye is when it is ‘pregnant’ on the fish and has formed a white nodule. (The white spot is about the size of a grain of table salt or sugar).

3. Parasites that have just burrowed into the fish are not visible until 2.

8. Spots appear then disappear as MI goes through its cycle. Remember 2. This 'disappearing act' is what leads uninformed aquarists to believe the fish are cured. This is the dumbest thing aquarists can possibly think about this parasite!

2. It goes away on its own. Untrue. Only visible at one stage IF it is on the body or fin of the fish. It’s the life cycle. If it was once seen, then it hasn't gone away -- it's just not visible to the aquarist.

 

[jenglish]

i got the aproval, YAY!

now he doesnt want a refracto, he doesnt test salinity very oftern so why does he care? is this possible without a refracto all the way to 1.009?

thanks for all of the advice everyone! :bow: :smoking:

if a hydrometer is checked against refractometer you can knwo what its really reading and it should stay accurate to that measure as long as you keep it VERY clean. Hydrometers only give a salinity at a certain temp as well. There are ways to lessen the risk when trying to do hypo w/ a hydrometer but it is still dangerous. just my .02 Good luck!

 

[burtonboy]

I used this liquid garlic stuff to boost there immune system it seemed to work for me, all u do is just add it to there food. Hope that helps!

 

[new reefer 03]

well, i had nothing better to do this afternoon so i went and bought coppersafe by mardel from petco. i sent Lee a PM just now, so no reply yet. i asked for his advice on treating using hypo, copper, or dont treat. i know i have had this answered but it seems they all were different. so i got what i need if im using copper!! if no copper treatment, then ill just return it.

my concern is HOB filters are like $40! and i remembered that i have an old one from my 16g FW tank! i guess i will use this, but how do i clean it out? should i use that biowheel? also i cant fill that container up all the way for a HOB that would be atleast 40g. i am thinking i can use something to place in the water to sit the HOB filter on? if not, can i use one of those filters that uses an air pump?
both of my parents think im stupid for even trying this, they think that since they look fine they will be fine. this is why its taking me so long.

 

[yungreefer2410]

its seems to me that both your parents are just as stupid fish wise as mine. my parents know that they know nothing about fish so they don't say anything to me about my fish other then have you feed them

 

[BigAl07]

if a hydrometer is checked against refractometer you can knwo what its really reading and it should stay accurate to that measure as long as you keep it VERY clean. Hydrometers only give a salinity at a certain temp as well. There are ways to lessen the risk when trying to do hypo w/ a hydrometer but it is still dangerous. just my .02 Good luck!

I have to say I don't agree here. They aren't accurate enough for such a precise treatment. Just WAY to much "Variation" with that device. It's OK if you just need a good "idea" where your water is but for H/S you need accuracy. Not "Lab-Grade" but more than a "It looks close" type of measurement.

 

[sambrinar]

2+ with Al, I have done a comparison and the hydrometer was always pretty far off.

 

[Jeremy0322]

Thats what i was trying to say haha

 

[new reefer 03]

alright well unless i get a refracto hypo is out. will copper be safe enough for me to do? it seems easy, but then again its poison in a bottle...
i have asked this many times, and gotton diff. answers but now i narrowed it down to... should i use the copper treatment, or try my luck for now?

OT: my cleanershrimp love cleanind my LM Blenny, and my Tang then saw that its okay to have a shrimp on you, and he is being cleaned right now. cleaners are awesome!!!

 

[ZAPCOnj]

i narrowed it down to... should i use the copper treatment , or try my luck for now

?

My emoticons above give my recommendation to you