Ca, Mg, Alk, and pH, Oh My! - Dowflake Ca, MagFlake Mg Alternatives?

[kyley]

Hi All,
So I've been reading a lot tonight (too much - it's late!) and learning about dosing Calcium, Magnesium, and such. I understand the baked baking soda additions for raising Alkalinity. I understand the Mrs Wage's Pickling Lime in the ATO water for maintaining pH (and helping w/ Ca). Both sound great!

I also read the DIY Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley article. That had me all excited (cheap way to dose Ca, Mg) - only to read later that Dowflake and MagFlake now have issues and shouldn't be used. So...

1. Are there suitable bulk hardware-store type alternatives for Calcium, Magnesium?
2. Should I get the Ca, Alk, Mg Supplement Package from BulkReefSupply? Looks reasonable, but not as inexpensive as Dowflake, MagFlake, etc.
3. Should I go the more expensive route of buying pre-mixed solutions like E.S.V. B-Ionic 2-part Calcium Buffer? I guess that has one benefit - I don't have to mix anything?

4. Or maybe I should consider a Calcium Reactor? These look expensive (although I saw a Coralife Calcium Reactor for < $100 - apparently not the greatest reviews). Oh boy, this hobby's getting expensive quick! But aren't the Calcium Reactor's cheap to run after that initial investment?

What do you all do? Thanks for your thoughts and advice,
--Kyle

 

[steveh]

If you are using Coral Pro salt and are regularly waterchanging then the need to supplement will be reduced vs using other brands of salt. The reason is that Coral Pro contains elevated and completely balanced levels of Ca, Alk & Mg, making it unique. The cost of supplementing therefore becomes far lower and our recommendation is to use a proprietory brand of supplements to ensure safety and compatibility.

 

[Auritania]

I'm using the BulkReef product. I mix it up into 2.5 gallon containers and have dosing pumps set on timers to feed it to the tanks. I have multiple tanks being fed with their own pumps from a common source in the basement. The pumps are nice in that they are about 1ml/min so I can set them for X minutes per hour rather than all at once and change the amount of Ca depending on the requirements of that tank.

I've also got strontium and iodide set up the same way for the farm.

The BulkReef stuff has been great so far. It's much less expensive than other 2 part options. You get an awful lot of solution from a container.

I'm seriously considering a calcium reactor for the farm in the basement since #1 I already have CO2 tanks around the house for welding and a soda dispenser and #2 my controller can handle another pH probe. All I would need is the reactor and some media. I'm a little reluctant because with the system I have now, I can pretty much monitor and control the system from work over the internet since I sometimes don't see the tanks for a few days. With a reactor, I'm not sure I will be able to do that.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

+1 steveh post... on a quality salt

and +1 - go the more expensive route of buying pre-mixed solutions like E.S.V. B-Ionic 2-part Calcium Buffer - you don't have to mix anything and for
imo - at $29 a year - this is hard to beat, a proven product many people use. If I had a huge tank & was spend hundreds on 2-part, I would use the Bulk Reef 2-part products, our state's Marine Aquarius of the year uses them in his huge 200 & 400 gal tanks.

 

[kyley]

Thanks All.

SteveH and Glenn, I am planning on a quality reef salt - was going to get Seachem Reef Salt - but I've also considered Instant Ocean Reef Crystals and Coral Pro. I may consider just using the pre-mixed solutions and saving the trouble... I thought I'd have to use a lot more than that each year (although that would probably be more like $60 for my RSM 250?).

Auritania, I don't know that I'm ready for the expense of dosing pumps, but what pumps and timer do you use? I'd like to at least look into the idea...

It's obviously going to be an expensive hobby regardless - I want things to consume the least amount of time, but also want to be frugal when I can. Thanks,
--Kyle

 

[redsea reefer]

I don't wanna mess with making my own supplements and I only dose 2-part Kent part A & part B. Its $12 for both and thats one less thing I have to worry about...

I am also using SeaChem Reef Salt, good stuff...

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

one gallon of the 2-part (and a rsm250) should last you about a year or so ... I have used less than 1/2 gal in my 130D, with a quality salt you should not have to dose that much & if you have a lot of softies & lps, as I do... they require a lot less.

 

[kyley]

Okay, cool, I think that's enough to convince me to go with one of the mixed supplements. How often do you have to dose with them when you're using the good reef salts? The idea of dosing daily (or even every other day) sounds like a pain... I'd like to have several SPS, but they won't be the focus of the tank.

I think I'm going to reverse my decision on the salt and go with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. It has good, high Ca and Mg levels and the Red Sea Coral Pro that came with my tank currently tests at 385-405 ppm Ca. That seems low when I don't have any snails, corals, etc. to be using it... I can get Reef Crystals for $50 shipped for 200 gallons, and it's available locally (for more). Seachem would be quite a bit more $ and sounds like they're about equal in quality.

Thanks all - Happy New Year!!!
--Kyle

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

I am dosing once a week and it is working for me... but I know everyone's tank is different & some others dose more frequently & some not at all.

 

[Oakhouse]

I've been using the Red Sea Coral Pro... and then daily dose (but not on water change day) of Seachem Reef Complete (Calcium) 5ml and Seachem Reef Carbonate 15ml... This seems to keep all my values spot on, and works for me.

 

[kyley]

Eh, salt is a tough choice - the more I read, the more good / bad I read about each brand. At any rate, I've read there's been a lot of issues with Reef Crystals lately and some brown scum. Ha, I think I'll go back to my original decision with Seachem Reef Salt. Eddie, do you get any scum / slime like that with your Seachem? I'd read through this thread where people were having problems with Reef Crystals (even in the more recent posts). Take care,
--Kyle

 

[redsea reefer]

Eh, salt is a tough choice - the more I read, the more good / bad I read about each brand. At any rate, I've read there's been a lot of issues with Reef Crystals lately and some brown scum. Ha, I think I'll go back to my original decision with Seachem Reef Salt. Eddie, do you get any scum / slime like that with your Seachem? I'd read through this thread where people were having problems with Reef Crystals (even in the more recent posts). Take care,
--Kyle

Nope, thats why I have stayed away from Reef Crystals.
I've used Instant Ocean, Tropic Marin, Coralife and SeaChem. I like Seachem the most although Coralife was not bad, high Ca but low on Alk.

 

[Spikewire]

I just switched from ReefCrystals to Tropic Morin. At first ReefCrystals seemed fine but in the last month or so I started seeing a strange bubbly film at the top of my prepared water. The last two mixtures wouldn't dissolve fully after 2-3 days so that was the end of ReefCrystals. I've only done one water change with the Tropic Marin but all went very well. I've heard so many rave review from experienced folks about Tropic Marin that I wanted to give it a try. It's a bit more $$ (partially because it is shipped from Germany) but I don't mind paying for quality. If I had a larger tank with larger water changes I might have to rethink that

 

[kyley]

Thanks - sounds like I made the right call not getting Reef Crystals. I ordered Seachem reef salt. Tropic Marin sounds great as well, but quite a bit more expensive. Thanks,
--Kyle

 

[Reefmack]

I have to dose daily with a lot of larger SPS, and the pre-mixed can be expensive. I have the Bulk Reef materials, but have been using SeaChem Reef Advantage Calcium and SeaChem Reef Buffer - powders that get mixed with RO/DI water and added to the sump. Bulk Reef is lower cost, but be sure to keep up with water changes or add trace elements. Most of the 2-part additives contain trace elements - the Bulk Reek Supply materials don't. Most of the liquid 2 parts are really all the same stuff - just about any of them are good.

 

[Reefmack]

Thanks - sounds like I made the right call not getting Reef Crystals. I ordered Seachem reef salt. Tropic Marin sounds great as well, but quite a bit more expensive. Thanks,
--Kyle

Hah - I'm switching back to Red Sea Coral Pro - my calcium and alk have been lower since switching to the SeaChem Reef Salt. All these salt comparisons can drive a person wacky!

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

+1 salt comparisons can drive a person wacky!

 

[mbdave]

Wow lots of opinions here... Well heres mine I use instant ocean salt I have forever and have NEVER had any problems or any that had me "take notice". I read in the mentioned post about slime in the bottom of some RC I wonder if some bacteria got in it somehow or something else maybe? Thats a few users out of thousands! I see Coralife salt mentioned and I say that I have never heard many good things about it, I used it awhile many moons ago and did not think my tank looked tip top, This could have been something else who knows but it looked better when I went back to "very bad disolving back then" IO. I use the highly technical, expert series, Wal Mart brand epson salts for magnesium additions just mix it with RO water. For Ca I use Bulk reef stuff in the past I used bulk calcium Chloride they sold for cheapy dehumidifiers but cant find it here. I have used Mrs Waggs for Kalk many times in fact have a few cans still in my aquarium cabinet when I go back to a larger tank I will use them. I don't see a problem with any of these "money saving" products you have seen pics of my tank it don't look to bad. I don't see buying the products from manufacturers that charge more for basically soda ash, calcium chloride, and magnesium sulfate plus shipping. I see the fish store products are proven and yes they are, but so is Mrs Waggs, Epson salts yada, yada, yada. A few years back I got Lugals solution through a local pharmacy where I lived, "a half pint for I think it was" around 20 bucks and used that for a few years and gave it away darn near full when I briefly left the hobby. Not long ago I apent 20 bucks for a tiny bottle from a manufacturer, "god I need another pharmacy"!!!
Now I'm not really cheap just don't see spending when not required, I will drop 100+ on a coral without batting an eye to the disdain of my lovely wife. If your looking for the perfect additive it ain't there, no magic snake oils, or ferry dust, try what you think is good and if it don't work as you want it"move on".

 

[Reefmack]

Good points Dave. I have a fresh supply of Bulk Reef materials here that I plan to mix up when I run out of the higher priced additives.

By the way - you've aged a lot in your newest avatar and grew that beard pretty quickly! Take some of that money you've saved & get yourself to a barber!

 

[mbdave]

lol that friendly fellow would be "Liver-eaten Johnson" interesting character look him up