Anybody keeps non-photosynthetic corals and will talk shop?

Does anybody keep the non-photosynthetic corals or Christmas tree worms?
Looking for those, who don't hesitate to talk shop - how to make them grow, improve filtration, make life easier.
Photos of corals before and after, do you have actual growth, spawning, larvae settlement, new colonies growing.
Photos of setup, including pumps-power heads placement and the sump.

Will ask how-to questions, beware :eek:lsmile: .
Silence in response will not be appreciated, as you can guess ;) .

I know, somewhere a lot of fellow keepers, who is ready to help - respond please.
 
Thank you, but I'm looking for an actual keepers to ask the questions about the things, absent in this article.
Appreciate a good will to help, though.
 

Terri

Member
I have the pseudopterogorgia (sea plume) i feed marine snow. I just ordered tree coral so i'll let you know hoe it goes.
 
Thanks for the fast reply :)
Have this too, really plume like, feeds all day as well, but I was told, that they are photosynthetic, this links says the same: Part 3
The only problem - it's too big for my 90g tank :dunno: .
Still looking for non-photosynthetic keepers :D
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Just Sun corals here. I have 4 colony's. I do very little with care for them. They are in good flow. I have had them over two years now.
 

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framerguy

Well-Known Member
I have sun corals and they seem to be hanging in there. I feed them everyday but they don't seem to really THRIVE. I also have christmas tree worms growing on a Porites coral. They, also, have not seemed to thrive, BUT.. many of them did survive through my tank crash last February 07 and are still with me. They looked much better and were many more of them before that! Both of these corals are in high flow areas and both are under halide lighting...I'm not sure what you want to know.
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Greg, Try moving the suns into the shade. I bet they do better not being fried by the MH's UV.
 

framerguy

Well-Known Member
Greg, Try moving the suns into the shade. I bet they do better not being fried by the MH's UV.
I have no doubt they would and I have tried that, but I have to feed them from behind the aquarium since it is built into the wall, and when I put them in a cave or overhang I can't see them anymore to feed them and I finally moved them out so I could see them. My plan is,(and I should do it now) is to put them in a small tank (plumbed to the large system) all their own to give them exactly the kind of environment they need.
 
lcstorc:
From what you remember, can you tell: what did you keep, what flow, food, amount and frequency of feeding, kind of filtration, what problems, how declined - for us to know, what to avoid and what pay attention to. Would appreciate this.

Frankie:
Good, that I found you. Are all 4 colonies of the same kind?

I have my orange one around 1.5 years, and it had overgrown its rock and is practically wrapping around. Part of polyps id facing down and can't be fed. Sorry, don't have a photo uploaded to Photobucket yet, but you cen see the bottom of colony at this page: Sun Coral, Tubastrea sp. down the page, bright red AquaGlove is noticeable.

Did your suns grow onto surrounding rock? Mine is on bare bottom, and I didn't notice this quite long. So far glued piece of the rock to keep colony lifted, may be should place colony on the rock to encrust it.

Did your spawn and larvae settled? If so, I will have much more questions :)

Did you met, by any chance, the information, which of the orange tubastreas is which - coccinea, faulkneri, aurea, and how to distinguish them visually. May be by septa pattern, if part of skeleton is visible.

Did your suns lost some intensity of coloration (coenosarc - body tissue, not tentacles)?
Mine was quite salmon-pinkish, but fade in a few months, despite of feeding by salmon and ocean plankton (pink), in addition to other food. One of the babies was kept in another tank, where it was fed mostly by dried Cyclop-eeze. It had more intense salmon-pink coloration, that other young colonies. In turn, only the young (1 yr+) colonies have the original pinkish shade, even on the same food, as a big coral.

Any ideas on restoring color of the big colony?

framerguy:
I was toying with the same idea of the smaller tank, plumbed to the big tank, but it will restrict access to the main tank, in my case. Now considering keeping it in a separate 10g tank, but have a problem with visualizing good looking tank with one big orange colony, one small yellow, high skeleton, and tens of baby colonies - placed compact, but accessible for a feeding and cleaning. Thank will be accessible from all sides, can't cover back wall by the rock.

It's strange, that your sun just hangs on. May be light, or flow - I'm sure you feed it well. I do that only twice a week, but have low light tank and coral is in relatively low flow.

Your Christmas Tree worms: I'm very interested. What kind do you have, how frequently do you feed it, amount and size of food. Anything, that you noticed, and what is worth to pay attention to.
I'm currently likely overfeeding, but have a scloronephthyas in the same tank, and they must be fed this way. But if I ever move scleros away, I would like to know, what feeding will be sufficient without compromising water quality.

Did your worms grow or reproduce? I mean the colorful ones, Spirobranchus.

I have a more, than one rock with worms, hopefully, they will have a choice for reproduction.
Mine are: common brown porites with large worms (crown is ~3/4" high), same kind, but very young worms (bought them, no reproduction in my tank), green porites with crowns of the same wine-red color, small (~1/2"H) colorful crowns on very fine beige/cocoa with milk color. And brownish with green centers of a new growth porites, but without worms, empty hole. Green pavona with drab-green worms.
If your porites are not brown, I will have more questions, if you don't mind.

My brown porites with large worms also survived toxic tank crash, that killed birdsnest and elkhorn. Bleached to the white, worms' crowns looked as a wet hens, but restored in ~3 months. Impressible. Any photos of yours? I can post mine - have a lot of them, but this is usually conversation stopper, for some reason.

Keep it coming.
Very interesting.
 
Frankie those are really nice sun corals!!


I don't really have any non-photosynthetic corals per se, but I do have a lot of tunicates that continue to spring up everywhere and my current flame scallops have been in my tank for 5 months or more. I had a flame scallop in my 180 for over 3 years until an anemone sat on it.

I think it helps a lot to have really established rock or something. I would say a sandbed but we didn't have one in the old tank or the newer tanks. I don't feed phyto, but I do feed lots of different frozen foods pretty frequently. I have had to cut back lately cause our nitrates had crept up to 50 (gasp!) but everything seems to be doing pretty well. I've always had luck keeping christmas worms, etc. Sun coral not so much because you have to be really diligent about feeding them, at least in the beginning. I do think a lot of the filter feeding creatures like good flow and shady spots.

Success with these kinds of corals is about starting with the smaller stuff and working your way up. It takes a lot of trial and error as well. Many people have told me I wouldn't be able to keep certain things that I've ended up having a lot of success in keeping.
 
Really good - especially flame scallop.
If you don't mind: which kind of Christmas tree rock do you have? Did they reproduce or had grown, anything worth pay attention to. Feeding for them - just frozen food for all tank, how many times a day?
 
They are the red christmas tree worms that come in their own tubes not on porites. I find them locally, not as big as coco worms.
I also had a small christmas tree porites for a long time in the 180. I kept them under one of my returns and they did fine.

Just a large variety of frozen foods (daphnia, brine shrimp, mysis, minced krill, cyclopeez, etc) at least 2-3 times per day. Live phyto every few weeks is good too, I just don't do it anymore.

Definately wise to have a good skimmer, refugium, frequent water changes so you don't foul your tank with all the nutrients that these guys need.
Actually a lot of corals in general like good flow. I have a huge green toadstool leather thats literally right in front of my tunze, it never slimes over because it gets constant flow.
 

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Well the only ones I have tried are sun corals and a gorgonian.
The suns I had a large piece of yellow and a very small orange piece. They yellow started declining fairly quickly but the orange was fine for a number of months and then finally started to go. I was feeding them mysis and cyclopeze and they were in my seahorse tank so they got quite a bit of mysis by accident as well. When they started to go I would notice more and more empty tube things where the polyps were just missing.
The gorgonian was the yellow with red spots and white polyps. We got this when the tank was very new and I didn't even know to target feed it. It was fine for about 5 months and then the tips started to turn red and were smaller than the rest. I later found out that the red parts were dead. If I broke off the red it would do fine for a while. If I left the red it declined quickly. I had a fairly large piece which gradually broke into smaller and smaller pieces. Gradually I have lost all but one small piece that is still hanging on. The decline of the gorgonian lasted about 2 years.
Hope that helps.
Forgot about flow. The suns were in low flow an low light in the seahorse tank.
The gorgonian was in medium flow on the bottom of the tank. First under PC lights and then under 150w MH. Lighting did not seem to make a difference one way or the other.
 
Reef Goddess:
Can you post a photo, or maybe a link to the Image Search for a free standing Christmas tree worms?
And I always was interested in coco worms, but all I had seen looked bleached, off-white pink. Maybe it is normal.

How high flow was under return? Did it bend the crowns of the worms?
Trying to learn about range of tolerances and preferred flow.

Placing sliming coral in the front of powerhead - you gave me the very interesting lead, how to deal with my new slimy tree-like coral, that was sold as scleronephthya. I never thought about this before.

lcstorc:
Thank you, and can you tell:
- tank turnover rate (liters per hour, per tank volume, or gph/tank volume),
- was the yellow finger gorgonian (Diodogorgia) in the high or low flow area,
- how many times a day gorgonian were fed, amount of food the tank received (in pinches or cubes - anything),
- was this gorgonian vertical or wide shaped? I have both kinds in red color, also Diodogorgia, and only one wide is finicky.
- did you feed the sun twice a week, was it a big or small colony, what amount of food it received each time - in cubes, tablespoons, anything. My big colony (7"L when open) takes about 5 cubes of Ocean Plankton and Mysis, or equivalent of chopped krill, shrimp and fish. And 3-4 cubes for all others. The skimmer produces the meat broth after that :)

Keep posting - very interesting.
 

jnohs

Member
i have a yellow finger gorgonian that had at least doubled it size from when i bought it. it really was a amazing piece.then for no aparent reason it other than moving it to its current location. meanwhile many many other locations were tried. started to wither away. but in the last 2 months it has made a nice turn around. out of nowhere for no obviouse reason it again has growen a large amount. compared from its sickes point.I also have a brown tree gorgonian That has done nothing but growwwwww. It has never shown any signs of weakness. I also have a christmass coral he only comes out at night but is doing quite well.

Additionaly i have 4 sponges. They are as follows. A pineapple sponge that has been with me for a long long time. He has not grown but looks very healthy and its vacioules are allways relocating them selfs. One other is a black sponge he has grown a nice amount since I recived him on a piece of live rock. Then I have a blue sponge who is constantly fighting a battle against red alge. It is a rather exciting process to wath. The alge destroys half then the spong fights back and doubles then gets attacked again, then repeting the process.The last is a red ball sponge that has done nothing it to fights red alge but not as dramatiac as the previous. I just grab it once and a while and I pump it in my fist.Leaving a dust cloud of dust like particulate and red alge off the surface of the sponge. This action seems to clean it very well.

There are also 3 large feather duster i own that have each grown about 4 inches each. It is a good measurment becasuse the new growth on there tubes is a much different shade of color then previouse growth.

I do not think I have any more substantial nonphotosynthetiac animals or corals worth mentioning. I hope this helps.
 
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jnohs

Member
My black tubstra died a slow death. And my sun coral is still dying a very slow death with only 2 polyps still alive of about 20. I have put it in the sand a little under a rock, somewhat in the shade. The tank this coral is in is crawling with coupious amount of amphapods and copapods alike. And still is withering away. Much slower then orignally though. I tried target feeding but it is just to slow of an eater.The hermit crabs get the food from this thing. It is so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I do not understand how this thing survives in the wild.
 

jnohs

Member
Mr lcstoric i have had the exact same problem with my gorgonian. I stated eairler in this thread that my gorgonian seemed to get better for no real reason. but i did recently move its location and i do not no if this is the real reason why it is dooing better. i have had it in many locations before. but anyway I have decided that my new placement is the reason for its new health. I is now in a position of medium flow witch in my tank of power heads is hard to find. it is usally calm spots or hight velocity currents from the power heads. I could be totally wrong about this. but i assure i have not done any thing to my tank. if anything i started neglecting it. Insufficent funds have caused me to perform water change once every 3 weeks now.

But maybe you should try to find the perfect spot in your tank for him.
 
Thank you! Still have a questions.
My NPS gorgonians (all, including red and yellow finger gorgonians) are not growing new branches, or become bigger - only basal growth at the base. Certainly, would like them to grow.

How do you describe the flow in the best place: are the polyps not bent at all, slightly bent, or many of them are bent and even branches spring in the flow?

What are you feeding, how frequently, how much each time (pinch, cube, part if teaspoon - anything, to give me an idea)?

What else, in your opinion, could contribute to the growth?

About declining tubastrea, if you don't mind my involvement:
What could be potentially done even now - place it not under bright light, but close to the top, not too strong flow, where you can feed it, using tweezers. 1 mysis per mouth, no losses, water quality doesn't suffer. With flow off, you can place sone food onto closed polyp - it may open.

With my massive water changes, I did the container feedings and adding a big pinch of Cyclop-eeze into the water - all suns open then. But that will influence water quality, not now. The tweezers feeding is a fair chance.
My 2 cents.
 
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