Almost ready to throw in the towel

JT101

JT101

Member
Hello All,

I'm going on 3 years and and 3 months with my AP24. I had a gradual hair algae outbreak about 7 months ago and I have been battling it ever since. I have taken to scrub each and every rock bare with a brush, then running a diatom filter in the tank, THEN doing 3 massive 40% WC in a row over the course of 3 days. I did this twice (along with weekly 30-40% WC) and the tank only remains algae free for about a week, then it starts again.

I switched from Tropic Marin Pro Reef to AquaVitro Seachem reef mix.

My RO/DI water is perfect.

I used to have an oscellaris clown, hawkfish, a tiny little hippo tank and other fish over the years. The clowns are still doing fine after 39 months, the hawkfish died last week suddenly and the tang died earlier this year. The reason I mention this is to state that, with just TWO SMALL FISH in my tank, I would find it hard to believe that this is a "nitrate problem". My palythoas are slowly dying - they haven't opened their polyps in weeks and are just round cups and appear bleached; the only thing thriving is a beautiful leather coral going on two years and asorted mushrooms that are growing everywhere (but these are very hardy corals so I know they'll do fine). My little zoantha "tree" was doing great for a couple of years, but now it's slowly being taken over by hair algae. ALSO, I have aiptasia everywhere and despite weekly kills with Joe'sJuice they keep coming back. Oh, my plate coral is doing fine.

My tank looks like total crap and I don't know what to do.

Is it possible that I may have to just start all over?
 
Eric

Eric

Google Warrior
PREMIUM
Well if you used FW to scrub the rock the die off and loss of bacteria more than likely put the tank back into a cycle like a fresh start.

I'm not sure a diatom filter is a good idea, how often are you running it?

Things I would look at is are you over feeding, do you keep the bulbs fresh, what other filtration do you have, and how often do you do WC?

Sounds like your not testing since you say you can't believe it's a nitrate problem with only to fish so that would be a good starting point to see what issues you really have, phosphates, nitrates, nitrites and ammonia.
 
JT101

JT101

Member
Eric said:
Well if you used FW to scrub the rock the die off and loss of bacteria more than likely put the tank back into a cycle like a fresh start.

I'm not sure a diatom filter is a good idea, how often are you running it?

Things I would look at is are you over feeding, do you keep the bulbs fresh, what other filtration do you have, and how often do you do WC?

Sounds like your not testing since you say you can't believe it's a nitrate problem with only to fish so that would be a good starting point to see what issues you really have, phosphates, nitrates, nitrites and ammonia.
Click to expand...

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the info, here are some points I want to make:

1. I scrubbed the rock in clean ASW, not fresh.
2. I used to run the DE filter every two months, when the tank was new, never had a problem with it until about 7 months ago so I didn't think the DE filter had anything to do with it.
3. I used to feed my fish 3x a week, now with just the two clowns it's down to maybe 1-2 times a week (a single mysis shrimp cube or a pinch of the same dry food I've been using for years).
4. I was testing religiously but about 4 months ago stopped (gave up?) because my RO/DI water was always perfect, maybe 5ppm nitrates tops and no measurable phosphates. Ammonia has been zero for years.

Thanks
John
 
S

stiffler70

Member
Answer urself these simple questions :)

1) wat kelvin are ur bulbs?
2) how long have you had these bulbs for? (perhaps change bulbs? if over 8 months-year)
3) Is your tank near a window?
 
Eric

Eric

Google Warrior
PREMIUM
A cube of mysis is a lot of food for two fish, I would consider that over feeding especially in a small tank, what the fish are not eating the algae is so it has a steady food supply.

You keep saying your testing your RO water are you testing the tank water? It's really hard to say what the problem is without knowing where your water parameters are.

Also what filtration are you using besides the diatom filter? Meaning skimmer, hang on back, water changes and so on.

We really can't help without all the details of your setup and parameters, without that it's all guess work.
 
S

stiffler70

Member
one thing i missed which i just read, you mentioned you did these large water changes in such a short period of time, if your tank is not completely cycled and you keep doin these massive water changes you will just constantly be disturbing the water cycle.

you did mention you had a tang for a while so i do doubt it would be that but all things aside you must consider every possability
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
As a summary of how to control algae, I present -

DaveK's Standard Lecture #2 - Algae Control

Algae control comes down to controlling nitrates and phosphates. If you have a problem with algae it is because these two nutrients are out of control. Do not think that just because your test kits read zero or low values that you do not have a problem. In many cases the algae is removing the nutrients and growing. This is why there is a problem.

Here are possible sources of nitrates and phosphates -

Feeding, especially flake food and not rinsing frozen foods before feeding.
Using tap water to mix salt. Always use RO/DI water for this.
"Dirt traps" and "nitrate factories" in the system.
Low quality carbon can leach nutrients.
Low quality salt can sometimes add nutrients. This is unusual today.

Here are possible ways to remove nitrates and phosphates -

Water changes. Change 1/2 the water and you reduce the nutrients by 1/2.
Skimming. Remove the waste products before the biological filtration need to break then down.
Nitrate and phosphate removal products.
Deep sand beds.
Refugiums.
Algae Scrubbers.

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. Most people that control algae well use many of the above methods.

There are also other items that can effect algae growth rates.

Good clean up crew.
Other livestock that eats algae.
Low general water quality, especially when the readings are off.
Lighting, sometimes you can reduce it, especially in FO or FOWLR systems.
Old light bulbs. Colors change as they age and this can be a factor.
Water flow. More flow will often help keep algae down.
Manual removal. Very important, especially when there is a big problem.


I would test the water in your tank and the water of the next batch of SW you mix. In rare cases salt or the RO/DI water can introduce nitrates and phosphates.


What is you filtration system, including your skimmer, if any. What media do you use?
 
M

MrPex

Member
Hey JT-

Not knowing the size of your tank, amount of rock, if you're protein skimming and a few other things, this would be my punch-list of things to do if I was in your shoes. Just my $.02 worth....

1) Are you running anything that will take up phosphates? I'd run Rowaphos until you get things under control and stick to the recommendations on the label. I'd also run GAC just to help a little extra bit.

2) Check bulbs- have they been in over 9 months? What spectrum are they? If you're using 10k or below or they're older than 9 months, I'd change them and go straight for 20K.

3) Leave your lights on for only about 6 or 7 hours a day for now. Maybe even leave them off 1 or 2 days a week.

4) If you tested your tank water it would probably going to show 0 nitrates and phosphates because the algae is taking it up. But if it does show levels of either, that means you probably have massive quantities of either being generates such that not even the algae can keep up with it. Could something have died in a hidden spot somewhere? Even if it happened months ago, if it stays in the tank, it can foul the water for a long time. I'd keep with heavy weekly water changes for now, but don't do huge water changes daily- this can stress what you WANT growing in there. And just because there are only two fish in there now doesn't mean that water is only being affected by those two fish- there could have been issues building up before just those two guys were the last men standing.

5) Keep scrubbing the rock where you can easily reach it right before you do your WC and remove the loose algae as much as possible. After you do, put a clean cotton sock over one of your PHs overnight to help filter out more of the stuff. This will GREATLY assist in nutrient export- getting a LITTLE bit of algae equals a LOT of water-change equivalent of nutrients. But I wouldn't disturb the rocks at all any more when you do this- you may only be stressing the biological filter.

6) Someone else mentioned that they consider one cube of mysis too much for what you have. I'm not familiar with mysis cubes, I don't need them for my tank, but I'd look into this. Also, I've read that rinsing the mysis in RO before feeding it gets rid of a LOT of nutrients- I've heard it called "rocket fuel for GHA" in another post on here.

7) Are you protein skimming? If not, I'd start, but that'd be the last thing I'd try if money is a problem just because of the cost of a good skimmer can be a cost some people can't just take on spur-of-the-moment. But if you can, go for it.
 
R

reefcrazy203

Member
when you do a wc, are you using tapwater? if so i would try drinking water for ur local food store. there are no nutrients in that water that will feed the hair algea. tap water is filtered water from you toylet and every other drain in your house so theres plenty of food for the algea. try cleaning the rocks then do A wc and keep using the distiled water.the Drinking water is only like 85cent so its very inexpensive.
 
K

kburg

New Member
I have had the same problem for 4 months now it is very frustrating, I think I am winning the battle though I suck out 3 pounds and more comes back. But I am making headway and am not giving up, I am starting to change about 4 gallons every 3 days. Good luck and don't let the GHA win....
 
GrendelPrime

GrendelPrime

Well-Known Member
do u have a clean up crew in there and do u have sufficient water flow?
detritis build up on rocks can help contribute to algae,
do u use bio balls? and i would test the rodi again as well as the water in the tank
 
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