Using Baking Soda to raise Alk

[goody]

I've used the reef calculator and went the route of Baking Soda to raise my Alk. At one point my alk was as low as 5.8dKH. I did raise it up to 9.6dKh using Baking Soda, but my question is can I continue to use Baking Soda to bring my Alk up or is it not meant for dosing. I was using B-Ionic to dose, but I ran out of Part I when my Alk went really low and I was dosing about 100mL a day.

 

[Dentoid]

Part 1 is baking soda dissolved in water. Make sure you are driving off the CO2 by heating the baking soda in the oven. If you don't and you use baking soda right out of the box, your alk will never go up and may go down.

 

[goody]

I was told not to bake the baking soda because my pH is around 8.4 And just so there is no confusion I am using baking soda out of the box and the Part I was B-Ionic not Randy's Recipe. So Dentoid are you saying that B-Ionic Alk Part is simply Baking Soda and water? If so, then it seems like I can dose with Baking Soda uncooked, right?

 

[Dentoid]

Yes, the Alk portion is predominantly sodium bicarbonate, minus the CO, and water. There are other lesser compounds though and proprietary ingredients and "trace elements".

I see what you mean by using it without cooking off the CO2 since your pH is spot-on. If you are going to use it straight out of the box, I'd keep a very close eye on your pH for unexpected swings. The B-Ionic and other two-part buffering systems are just that, they buffer the pH so that it doesn't change.

 

[goody]

Great! I think I'll use the Baking Soda to raise the Alk and then go back to using B-Ionic to dose. My question is how do I know how much and how often I should be dosing? I only have six 2"+ SPS frags and about 20 LPS corals. Would just following the directions for the B-Ionic plus water changes keep my alk and Ca balanced?

 

[framerguy]

Scott, I spoke with Gary of Get Tanked (while buying calcium chloride) and he asked how I was maintaining alk and I told him I was using baked baking soda and he asked "why" I was baking that it worked better unbaked and it was one of the things he and RH Farley disagree on. I'm almost afraid of trying the unbaked because RHF is the guru of the chem world. Has anyone else tried unbaked?

 

[goody]

I did use unbaked because RHF said it was a good way to get a boost and all you need to do is add it to some water and put in a high flow area. He also wrote that Recipe #2 IS unbaked baking soda and is a good way to go.

 

[BobBursek]

Un baked BS will raise Alk and drop PH, Baked BS will raise both PH and ALK.

 

[BigAl07]

Sort of off-topic but not entirely...

HOW do you bake it? How long and at what heat?

Also does it taste like chicken when baked?

 

[jaubuchon]

I'm certainly new to reef/SW... So this might be a dumb comment :dunce:

But I've been using Baking Soda for years on my FW Cichlid tanks. For me, it always worked very well as a buffer and it kept my pH right around 8.0.

I'm trying to understand the SW impacts, which appear to be much more complex. It sounds like the arguement is that adding the Sodium Bicarbonate will push equilibrium towards generating more Carbonic Acid??? OR is it more realted to the fact that it will produce H+ and CO3- at equal ratios?

Does that sound right? Where baking it first turns it into Sodium Carbonate. THis is a stonger base. It produces 2 CO3- for every one H+.

I don't see how baking the NAHCO3 drives off CO2. It looks like it removes the H+ and doubles the CO3-- concentration... Is that right?

I might be way off... I've been reading many posts and taking notes. I'm a Chemical Engineer, but its been 10 years since college and I don't deal with this kind of stuff in my current position.

 

[BobBursek]

Spread out on a cookie sheet pan, bake at 400* for 3 hours.

 

[BobBursek]

I do not understand the chemistry behind it, read it once in one of Randy H-F articles on Reef Central, maybe Boomer can chime in and explain it, I do not think Randy participates here.

 

[Woodstock]

Baking soda straight out of the Arm&Hammer box is sodium bicarbonate and has high amounts of co2. Using this will raise the alkalinity and temporarily supress the PH due to the co2.

Baking soda that has been BAKED in the oven is converted to sodium carbonate because the heat drives out the co2. Using this will raise the alkalinity and raise the PH.

 

[lcstorc]

Follow Randy's article. It explains much of the chemistry between the two,
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Boomer]

No need to chime it it looks like it is fixed unless some is still confused

 

[framerguy]

Yeah Lynn, that's the formula I use.

Thanks Boomer, baked it is!

I don't understand the chem stuff, I let others do that then tell me what to do. I try to read the "why's" of the chem process and a funny buzzing sound goes continually in my head until I stop reading it. It's very frustrating.

 

[Boomer]

jaubuchon

In case you missed it or did not read the article


2 NaHCO3 + Heat à --> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2



Greg and others.

You only use straight BBS, if you have a low pH and Alk as Woody an others brought up. If it is just a low Alk then only BS. The low initial pH it produces will go back up, as the excess CO2 is "blown" off. Buffers should not be used to raise pH.



Some use a mixture of 6 : 1, BS : BBS

Goody

How much to use, it is all right here


Reef Chemistry Calculator

 

[Tru2nr]

SO let me be clear if i want to raise my alk but not touch my ph i should not bake it? and if i need to raise both i bake it for 3hrs at 400degrees?

 

[framerguy]

That's the way I'm reading it but would like Boomers confirmation. I have consistently low PH and Alk so I use baked. Boomer, Doni, Lynn....am I doing it right?

 

[lcstorc]

Don't ask me. I just read Randy's articles and go to where he says what to do. If it isn't there then I ask Boomer. Chemistry makes my head hurt. Maybe someday I will understand but not yet.