Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environment

[DBrinson]

My biggest disappointment when I came back into this hobby after 6 years of pity-partying was that the value of seagrass tanks had yet to be discovered. Anyone in driving distance of the Pensacola area please PM me if you want to try seagrass collection/cultivation, I'd be glad to help you get started.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why this practice is so shunned. Commercially "harvested" sea grasses are obtained as they drift loose from the seagrass beds and float ashore. Most of these are DOA. The rhizomes and roots are far, far more important to cultivating seagrasses than the blades. The mud in the roots contains critical nitrogen-fixing bacteria that are not only key to the plant's survival, but great for reducing nitrates in a reef system.

Most aquarists consider Thalassia testudinum to require "expert" level care. (Hence why macroalgae tanks for nutrient removal outnumber true seagrass tanks 100 to 1.) It doesn't. It is quite easy to keep. My tank was completely destroyed by Hurricane Ivan in 2004. When cleanup crews excavated the remains of my tank, it was putrefying, but seagrass was still growing from it.

The bioload in my tank was off the charts, I credit my inline seagrass bed for keeping the nitrates in check, once my grass was going, nitrates were never again detectable. I wrote Bob Fenner about the setup at that time, he quoted Yogi Berra back to me, "Nothing speaks like success".


The Law in Florida
In Florida you are allowed to harvest 1 gallon/20 plants per day with a Florida saltwater fishing license. Caleurpa is protected, so is Halimeda, and anything containing red coralline algae. The rest of the Marine plants (except a few protected by Federal laws) are as harvestable as fish.

I think it may be the idea of uprooting grasses that people are wary of. Yet the same people catch a rare fish and it's a trophy. The waterways around Florida are just covered in this stuff, and the locations of grass beds are very well charted. You will cause more damage to a seagrass bed by driving a motorboat nearby than by uprooting a rhizome for personal use. The turbidity of the water is the primary limiter of seagrass range, it spreads like weeds anywhere sunlight can reach the bottom.

Here are a couple key legal references for those interested, I highlighted the key sections:

68B-42.001.doc
68B-42.005.doc

I can provide a lot more than the above if anyone is interested, those two docs are the most important guidelines however.


Our Ultimate Mission
For me, this has become personal. The Thalassia beds on the eastern side of Escambia Bay were literally destroyed by Hurricane Ivan, and have not come back yet. The main reason, seagrasses naturally "retreat" to tidal pools inland after a storm surge smothers the beds on the coast in silt, and then they spread outward to the coast again as the water clears up. Because of inland development and drainage, there is no "fallback" position for the seagrasses inland ... if only a half dozen local aquarists kept seagrass beds of the type that is native to the Bay, replanting would be a cinch. Instead, we have to look to outside sources for new Thalassia, less optimal since different varieties exist in different salinities in different coastal waters.

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

 

[McTeague]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Yeah I have a couple questions...

Does the seagrass grow up and out of the water or does it stay below the surface?

Does it grow prolificly and therefore require frequent harvesting and the accompanying nutrient export?

Does it have extreme lighting requirements?

 

[GrendelPrime]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

i have 1 question also do u need to have a deep sand bed to grow turtle grass?

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Yeah I have a couple questions...

Does the seagrass grow up and out of the water or does it stay below the surface?

I presume you mean in your tank? Yes, it will grow out of the water, but it is best to have high current in your seagrass beds so the blades will stay submerged.

In places where it can be harvested, grass can often be observed that is long enough to "stick out of the water" but the action of surf keeps the shoots below water level everywhere I have surveyed. Turtle grass tends to turn "flexible" in these circumstances, it grows much "stiffer" in places where the water is deep. You want to replicate this, you do not need a deep tank to grow seagrass, so long as the current keeps the blades "bending" below the surface.

Notably, the shore near seagrass beds is piled up high with dried out seagrass blades. These may be the "die-off" that all blades experience as they are replaced, but this also includes the shoots that are blown onshore, which is the only type of shoots that you can buy if you purchase seagrass from a vendor.

Does it grow prolificly

Yes, very much so, it sends out new rhizomes and grows in length in the tank.

and therefore require frequent harvesting and the accompanying nutrient export?

Honestly, not a good approach when harvested wild to "trim" your seagrass. Much better to provide it with ample current and let the outflow from your seagrass tank pour through a wide mesh filter sock, the blades drop off constantly and can be "harvested" when they release from the rest of the plant. Your job is to "harvest" these blades before they decay and release the nutrients stored in them when they were absorbing the nutrients from your tank.

Also, the "grazers" which will accompany wild seagrass have some kind of mechanism to help the seagrass regrow after they eat it! I have "trimmed" seagrass with sharp shears and the blades which are trimmed tend to just drop off rather than regrow. But the tiny grazers, copepods and such, will eat at the seagrass in such a way that the seagrass will regrow to fill the little holes and trails left by the grazers.

It is possible that the grazers only went after portions of the blades that were "dying off" already, thus helping the health of the seagrass.

Does it have extreme lighting requirements?

I know I am at odds with accepted seagrass theory when I say this, but no!!

I have used plant growth lights purchased from horticulture dealers, which are not much more than flourescent lights, and provided my grass beds with all the light they needed. You can see one of them in the rightmost picture above, it was mounted via plastic clasps to the "doorway" of the stand so the first thing I had to do when I accessed the equipment under my tank was "snap it off" and set it aside. I did upgrade that light to twin VHO's later on, this increased the growth rate of the plants, as well as the die-off.

i have 1 question also do u need to have a deep sand bed to grow turtle grass?

You don't need as deep a bed as the literature says, but you do need room for roots. In fact, the best substrate for seagrass is mud, Miracle Mud is a product I have found works very well, my colleague at Gulf World found great success with it as well.

The main thing you need in a seagrass bed is current, and lots of it. In my setups, I have let all my "drained" water from the DT empty through the seagrass bed en route to the sump, giving the seagrass tank turnover of 40x or more. Think of what you know about corals and the need to flush waste products from their polyps, and then imagine the corals shed and replaced leaves every month or two. Current is key to "dethatching" the seagrass, in the same way you might dethatch your lawn with a rake.



Great questions guys, keep them coming!

 

[johnmaloney]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

FDEP regulates plants, not FWC. (FWC says "plants" in the regulations, but it has effectively worked out to "macroalgae", and FDEP regulates dredging and seagrass, that is what this falls under - you are looking at FWC fishing regulations) The collection of sea grass that is not in drift is illegal without a permit from FDEP. (That is why the seagrass in the hobby is drift, everyone can find the rooted stuff, but it is finding legal seagrass that is the trick). FDEP doesn't issue permits for hobby use, only bona fide scientific studies and mitigation products. But laws change, always consult with your FWC and FDEP office before collecting etc..

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Interesting, finding "drift" seagrass isn't hard, anywhere near a seagrass bed you can find intact green plants washing ashore, especially on days seas are "rough". I can provide pictures of just that, the issue for me isn't the availability of drift, so much as the quality. Drifting seagrasses are a casualty of natural selection, and lack the mud-dwelling hitchhikers necessary for the survival of the plants.

My information from FDEP (10 years ago) was that the FDEP, through the Office of Coastal and Aquatic Managed Areas, regulates collection of seagrasses inside of Florida's 40-something designated aquatic preserves, at varying levels per each reserve. The FDEP also lists special regulations for any of three National Estuarine Research Reserves, 28 National Wildlife Refuges, or in the Florida Keys Marine Sanctuary. Granted, these preserves cover the bulk of Florida's coastal waters. (Though finding Thalassia outside of one of these preserves isn't hard, the limits of each of these preserves show up on most any maritime map)

Even if you do just collect "drift", a scoop of mud from the bed will give you the invaluable hitchhikers you need to ensure success in cultivating seagrasses.

 

[johnmaloney]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Can't collect live sand(or mud) either though. I very rarely see turtle grass with roots in dirft...maybe 3 sprouts a year, it is usually just the blades. (It happens, but not like that around here at least) If you have a picture of that keep it to yourself and link me the directions...lol... just kidding. I really never see turtle grass washing up like that, manatee grass is the most common...I believe you though, the state is big...

I agree with what you are saying, it would be better to sod your aquarium with seagrass sod. Not disagreeing with that at all, that would be an awesome way to plant it. But I would double check with agencies, I think things have changed a lot since you checked last, (then again they probably changed since I checked last lol... ), the aquarium fishery regulations have changed especially. The regs have been getting stricter each year, hobbyists have particularly stringent bag limits these days.. If you are a recreational collector you should try to attend the FWC Marine Life Workshops, they are short and kind of fun. There were only 4 people in attendance though to give the agency feedback.

The good news though is that you are allowed to collect the coralline, halimeda and caulerpa you had mentioned under a recreational license. There is a box right next to it that makes that portion confusing in the printed short version...whole thing reads like a VCR manual... It works out that you have a one gallon bag combo type limit..but anyway dont get your fishing reg license from me, it is always best to ask them. (Also with coralline all the other gear restrictions apply, so you are probably stuck with hand collection or possible flexible knife collection. Takes encrusting coralline largely out of play.. ).

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Can't collect live sand(or mud) either though. I very rarely see turtle grass with roots in dirft...maybe 3 sprouts a year, it is usually just the blades. (It happens, but not like that around here at least) If you have a picture of that keep it to yourself and link me the directions...lol... just kidding. I really never see turtle grass washing up like that, manatee grass is the most common...I believe you though, the state is big...

I agree with what you are saying, it would be better to sod your aquarium with seagrass sod. Not disagreeing with that at all, that would be an awesome way to plant it. But I would double check with agencies, I think things have changed a lot since you checked last, (then again they probably changed since I checked last lol... ), the aquarium fishery regulations have changed especially. The regs have been getting stricter each year, hobbyists have particularly stringent bag limits these days.. If you are a recreational collector you should try to attend the FWC Marine Life Workshops, they are short and kind of fun. There were only 4 people in attendance though to give the agency feedback.

The good news though is that you are allowed to collect the coralline, halimeda and caulerpa you had mentioned under a recreational license. There is a box right next to it that makes that portion confusing in the printed short version...whole thing reads like a VCR manual... It works out that you have a one gallon bag combo type limit..but anyway dont get your fishing reg license from me, it is always best to ask them. (Also with coralline all the other gear restrictions apply, so you are probably stuck with hand collection or possible flexible knife collection. Takes encrusting coralline largely out of play.. ).

All of the information I have from the FWC and FDEP came directly from them, and I've had independent confirmation from so many sources in the past, I am going to contact many of the same offices (there's an FDEP office right down the street from me) this week. There are no workshops planned any time soon in the Panhandle, but I will definitely ask them if one can be held any time soon.

My first step back when I started this practice, was to contact a major supplier of seagrass who only sells to permit-toting researchers and they told me to get a permit if I wanted to get seagrass through them. Then I set out to get a research permit (the FDEP didn't understand how a graduate student in electrical engineering needed one at the time haha) and was told to collect on my own, albeit staying away from declared preserves or the Fort Pickens natl seashore, and not to transfer my plants to anyone else for sale or otherwise.

It was the FDEP who first told me to collect on my own, at the Garcon Pt. Road Office in Santa Rosa County. I contacted my friend at Gulf World in Panama City (who had his own permit to cultivate seagrass) and he told me the same information. I then contacted the supplier of seagrass and they discussed bag limits for hobbyist and commercial use with me at length. I got my saltwater fishing license, went to the local office of the FL Marine Patrol in Pensacola and they verified the rules. (I sought actual legal counsel two years later before a routine insurance appraisal ... lol)

Here is what I don't get: Are you actually saying that the "restricted" species on that list of "coralline, halimeda and caulerpa" are legal to collect but the unrestricted species are not?? That "coralline algae" rule is the new (2009) rule that prohibits collection of live rock and sand, is what I was told last week. If it doesn't contain coralline, it isn't "live" to them.

We have a strong north wind for the next week in my area, I should be able to snap you a shot of some "drift grass" if I find a good north-facing shore, you'll see what I mean about "easy to find".

I am attempting to meet with a Maritime/Admiralty attorney this week about the issue, who dealt with a seagrass (dredging) case fairly recently, hopefully he will be able to clear some of these issues up.

 

[johnmaloney]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

that would be great to know if if they had some type of regulated but sensible collection allowance. It was my understanding that they didn't, but then again I probably also deal with a different FDEP office, mine is the Southeast district office. maybe it is a personal research/curiosity type exception?

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Just a follow-up on this thread after some legal counsel etc.

The Southeast district is the exception, since 99.9% of your waterways (and pretty much all of your seagrasses) are in "protected areas". The Gulf Coast is a lot more open. Here's the map of FL aquatic preserves. That doesn't include national seashores (Canaveral, Gulf Islands) national preserves (Big Cypress) or national parks (Everglades, Biscayne, Dry Tortugas).

Personal collection is not an exception, it's a seperate classification.

You can't get a permit for personal use because it doesn't require a permit, unless you plan to harvest in a protected zone.

State Parks are trickier ... some are protected, some are not. Some include waterways, some do not. Most of the protected ones are on the list of preserves linked above.

Your best bet if you are harvesting and trying to stay out of protected waters is to use a boat and study a good maritime map that shows boundaries of protected areas, and to harvest from water facing someone's private property. Don't feel bad, I live on a major fishing waterway and I see flounder fishermen out back of my house at night, and mullet fishermen out back of my house by day. Harvesting offshore of someone's house ensures you aren't facing publicly owned land, which can include public control of the water adjacent to the land. Private landowners enjoy no such "extended jurisdiction", their ownership stops at the water's edge.

It's not as complicated as it seems, just focus on a target area you want to harvest from and study the boundaries exhaustively for that exact location. (Also make sure you have all the rules in writing nearby in case you have to answer questions.)

 

[Eric]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Great info for anyone living on the coast, I'm to far inland and my wife may frown upon a special vacation to harvest sea grass

 

[fishstink]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

can i see a pic of your seagrass ?

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

can i see a pic of your seagrass ?

It is currently a bit overgrown with filamentous red algae though the grass is growing through it, I have been slow to "clean" the algae from the blades because I didn't want to disturb the plants' root systems. I will post some updated pics as soon as I get it all cleaned up, including some with the algae "over top" of the seagrass.

 

[DBrinson]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

Not "cleaned up" per se, but here's a shot I took in the only aperture between my equipment that will allow a tripod shot.

Here is a picture of what it looked like 5 months before:

Note that I planted my tank on 12/4

And my display tank was not inline until 1/2 (it was just uncured rock and an eel)

My tank wasn't fully "balanced" until 1/19. (The last traces of nitrates were detectable by my Hach test kits on 1/17)

"Day 1" - Seagrass planted

"Day 30" - Display tank w/ 200 lbs. uncured air-freighted Vanuatu rock plumbed inline

"Day 47" - Tank is completely cycled

"Day 49" - Massive quantities of corals (60% SPS, 20% zoas, 15% Xenia, 5% LPS) added. Also 3 clams, inverts, over 20 fish added to tank. No losses to date due to illness. (A trio of compatibility "incidents" however).

"Day 156" - today

Cycling a newly arrived display tank and uncured rock in just 19 days to that level of stability is pretty much unheard of in this hobby, and makes a very strong case for planted seagrass tanks as a "first step" in establishing an aquarium.

 

[steved13]

Re: Turtle Grass self-collection in FL - The Future of reefkeeping and the environmen

That's an impressive timeline.