**~~TOTW- Water Circulation~~**

[Cosmic]

[size=huge] WELCOME[/size] to this week's [size=huge] TOTW, [/size][size=huge]Water Circulation[/size]!!!

This week's topic will cover topics such as proper pumps for each job, proper flow rates for various areas of your system, various methods of creating a suitable water movement for your corals, as well as such terms as "Laminar", "Surge", "Head Pressure" and "Thermo-Cline", among others.

So here's your choice to show off those heavy duty dual-pump designs, as well as ask questions about what pumps might be best for your situation, and why.

Remember that each week's discussion will have an open chat each Weds night at 9PM Est time, on the MIRC XNET servers, room #Reefsanctuary. You can also connect by following the "chat" link on the front page side-bar. We look forward to seing you there!

 

[wooddood]

thanks cos, i think this will be great.thanks dave.

 

[Maxx]

Thanks Cos.....Taggin along....cant wait to see what great ideas people have for their tanks! I hope Mojo posts his set up here...His water movement from all those motorized ball valves is said to awesome!
Nick

 

[ReefLady]

I for one have never understood the fascination with a closed loop. Can someone please expand on the virtues of this little system?

Thx

Travis

 

[wooddood]

imo travis, water movement and getting rid of those ugly power heads.

 

[Cosmic]

A closed loop is simply a great way to add LOTS of circulation without sacrificing real estate in the main display. It also helps to reduce the water temperature because the pump is not submerged as with powerheads.

In my system, I have 3- aquaclear 802 PH's, a AC 402 PH, my Mag 9.5 return, and a little giant 3 as a closed loop for extra circulation. The closed loop allows me to achieve movement rates approaching 30X's an hour turnover in my 75 gallon tank. The corals go nuts over it I would have to sacrifice another couple of PH's and the added heat to otherwise get these kind of flow rates. Not too mention how much NICER it looks without looking at PH's and cords, just a water opening and intake tube, covered with coralline.

To further describe my system's flow rates, ALL 4 AC powerheads are run from a Wavemaster Pro. I really like the circulation and random currents it generates, but it also eats these AC PH's alive. I rip through an impellar ($18 each) about every other month on avg. So, the closed loop is first of a few that will replace this whole PH ordeal. I will either use the SCWD's (People still using these things?) or a Sea-Swirl for randomization of current.

My refugium is a 55 gallon tank that runs about 3/4 full of water (and sand). Flow rates through the sump are on the order of 8X's an hour or so. A bit fast for a refugium, and I have a plating Monti right under the return that shows it. The Monti has a small bit of red slim algae growing here and there where the return pushes out over it. This means nutrients are coming back to the tank itself, and the refugium does not have time to do it's job well enough. It might also be indicative of an undersized skimmer, fwiw.

A Laminar flow is something that is not desirable in a reef setting. Laminar flow simply means a non-changing flow from a single point. A perfect usable definition is a Powerhead. Ocean currents are highly variable and chaotic by nature. This helps to keep detritus from settling because a rock gets hit with water from all sides, not just a single side. it also helps to penetrate a thick shrub of acropora better, washing away the waste toxins. Hopefully you get the idea of the importance of a random flow. Not only is turnover rates important, but the Movement of the water as well.

 

[Maxx]

Originally posted by Travis
I for one have never understood the fascination with a closed loop. Can someone please expand on the virtues of this little system?

Thx

Travis

Great feeder question Travis!
Pretty much like Wood said....It gets rid of powerheads and be designed w/ a little more power in mind....
Many people drill their tanks, and assume that it is the only way to have a closed loop, but thats not the case. Your friend Mark Levinson(?) Melev who made you that awesome acrylic box for top down tank shots w/o distortion has a good explanation of how he made his closed loop w/o drilling. Closed Loop
But I'm sure you already knew that!
Nick

 

[Cosmic]

Sure 'nuff.
Here's a picture of my closed loop stack for an un-drilled tank.

 

[Maxx]

I didnt know you had one Cos!
It looks good. I like the Durso/Stockman mod you made. Just one question, why did you go w/ a ball valve and then a union as opposed to just a union ball valve? Cost?
Nick

 

[wooddood]

thanks maxx,thats where i got my idea from marcs site.im going to go with a squid on mine too cos.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Here are a couple of great pictures from the link above, great link Maxx!

:smirk:

 

[Maxx]

Wood,
I've read, (cant really give credible documentation tho') that SCWDS will limit the flow thru them to only about 1200 gph due to the mechanics involved in making them work. This isnt really a problem for most folks, but in larger applications, (bigger tanks w/ higher water flow requirements) this can be a concern.
I personally am planning on using both a SCWD and a Sea Swirl. I'm currently only planning on one SS...but want ot be flexible enough to move to two of them should it be necessary.
Nick

 

[wooddood]

maxx the scwd is rated at 1400gph max.im running it on my return pump that is a rio 32 hyperflow rate at 1500 at a 4 ft head and mine switches at a 7 second interval on each side and is working great. for how long though we will see.

 

[Maxx]

Gotcha...dont have one running yet...thanks for the info Wood...
Nick

 

[Cosmic]

Maxx,

I just didn't have the union ball valves available at the time I made my stack. Otherwise I would have. As luck had it, I had just enough room to squeeze it all in

Cos

 

[TDEVIL]

what is the going opinion on Eductor's, they are easy to make and could more than double the output of your pump

besides what they look like, i know that they dont work as well with lowpressure pumps compared to the highpressure pumps

plus they can be used on the feed pump for your skimmers, which would help in that area also

and if you are working with a small area in your sump (for example) lets say that you need a mag10 (or the like) but dont have the room for it but you can fit a slightly smaller pump in there, with an eductor you can increase the flow of the smaller pump, the same could apply to closed loops

what do you guys/gals think

TD

 

[SunnyX]

I dont think I have enough flow in my tank... I have
4 Aquaclear 402's and Mag 3 for my skimmer.
What do you guys think?

 

[fidojoe]

For a closed loop, what do you use for the pump? I'm thinking about using one, but unsure of what type of pump. I like the design with the 2 outputs on either side on the sqwd. I don't want to spend tons of $$ for a pump, and I only need something about 500 gph. Right now, I have a fluval no media @ 340 gph, skimmer @ 200 gph, AC 3000 PH @ ~290 gph, AC 201 and 301 @ 125 gph and 175 gph. The fluval would be removed and replaced by the CL.

 

[Maxx]

T devil,
Here is a link on eductors @ RC. I had a search w/ a bunch of links set up on many threads on RC concerning eductors, but they update and move things around quite frequently. So the best thinfg I can do is tell you to read that thread and then do a search on RC and check out the results.

if you are working with a small area in your sump (for example) lets say that you need a mag10 (or the like) but dont have the room for it but you can fit a slightly smaller pump in there, with an eductor you can increase the flow of the smaller pump

Yes this is true, just remember that it wont effect a pumps ability to overcome head pressure. So if your tank needs a mag 10 to pump the water up high enough, (hypothetical set up w/ sump in basement...) to reach the main tank, but your sump will only let you fit a Mag 7 in there...an eductor wont help you. I'm sure you already knew that, just clarifying. From what I've been able to piece together, eductors are great on longer tanks, but on a shorter tank such as my 58 (36Lx18Wx21H) they're overkill.

For a closed loop, what do you use for the pump? I'm thinking about using one, but unsure of what type of pump. I like the design with the 2 outputs on either side on the sqwd. I don't want to spend tons of $$ for a pump, and I only need something about 500 gph.

Go w/ a mag 5 or a mag 7. I just got a mag 7 from custom aquatic for $57.99 US. Its rated @ 675 gph @ 1 foot of head, and 400 gph @ 6 feet of head.
Nick

 

[Maxx]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=2110262&sortby=&sortorder=
link to eductors search on RC...Lord only knows how long the link will be valid...
Nick