Topic of the Month 02/07 - Sorting Good from Bad Advisers

[Cougra]

One of the hardest things for people new to fish keeping to do is figure out whom they can trust as knowledgeable individuals and whom they need to stay clear of. While they have a great deal of enthusiasm and generally want to set up the best system they can, they don’t have the experience necessary to determine what the best equipment and livestock is to achieve their goals. As a generally rule most new hobbyists tend to trust that the employees at their LFS will be able to help them build their first system, however more experienced hobbyists know that not all LFS employees give the greatest advice.

So this months topic is about ways to help new hobbyists to sort the good LFS’s and LFS employee’s employees from the not so good ones.

So the big question is: What are some simple things that new hobbyists can ask an LFS employee or anyone offering to help them for that matter so they can assess whether they are getting decent advice or not? The emphasis should be on SIMPLE questions and responses for people who don't have a lot of experience in the hobby to help them find some good employees!

For example: (This is just a very basic simple question!)
Will this Mandarin goby (can substitute Scooter Blenny and Red Scooter Blenny as well) be ok in my newly cycled tank?
Simple Answer: NO.
Reasoning: They are members of the Dragonet family, which are very difficult to care for and require large mature tanks, with lots of live rock, a refugium, and no other tankmates that eat copepods, as these are their primary food source. Dragonets rarely accept frozen or prepared foods which are capable of sustaining them for long periods of time. They wont do well in a new tank or a tank smaller then 75 Gallons.

 

[saltwaterfarm]

I think one of the contributing factors with my LFS is that he is also an enthusiast... Ask if they have their own tanks at home?

 

[Dentoid]

One thing that I do is ask the employees if they have a certain fish or invertebrate in the store. If they have to look it up in a book or say "I don't know what that is...", then I know they are new or inexperienced.

 

[BrothaWolf]

One thing that I do is ask the employees if they have a certain fish or invertebrate in the store. If they have to look it up in a book or say "I don't know what that is...", then I know they are new or inexperienced.

Thats not a bad thing. I would rather someone be honest and say I dont know but I will find out for you

The guys that work at my LFS will actually steer me away from corals that look suspicous to them or that have poor track records. Makes me trust them 100%!

 

[Witfull]

homework,,,always do your homework.

new hobbyists need to take it slow. first purchase should be a good book. then go to the internet. read read read. listen to the advice,,,all of it. then start to draw your own conlusions. advice is free, but it must be trusted. look at the advisors tank(s), research other advice they have given (do they contradict themselves), and always take advise with a grain of seasalt untill you can determing which is best for you.

dont rush into it willy nilly. this is an expensive hobby and money doesnt grow on trees (atleast i cant find that tree) a salt tank is like a garden. before you can have pretty flowers, alot of work must go into the soil and preparing the landscape so that the garden can flourish for many years. next you plant the plants,,,looks nice, but kinda sparse. with responsible care and time, the garden fills in and becomes picturesque. this is reefing.

 

[Dentoid]

Thats not a bad thing. I would rather someone be honest and say I dont know but I will find out for you

The guys that work at my LFS will actually steer me away from corals that look suspicous to them or that have poor track records. Makes me trust them 100%!

Brotherwolf. So if you walk into a new lfs and ask if they have any Royal Grammas and the employee says, "I don't know what that is...", you would continue taking advice from that person? Honesty is one thing, advice is another-stick to the topic!

 

[cheeks69]

IME it's very difficult to sort out good advice from bad if you don't know anything. When I first started I was told by someone who has been working at an LFS for years and has his own tank that Mandarins eat flake food, so not knowing anything I bought the fish and he died in the first month or two, went back to the store and bought another one and unfortunately the list goes on and on especially for the first year.

My advice is if your new to the hobby buy some good books ! Also do some research on your own, the internet has some great online magazines that are very informative. If your better informed when you do go to the LFS you'll be able to easily distinguish from good/bad advice.

 

[Cougra]

One thing that I do is ask the employees if they have a certain fish or invertebrate in the store. If they have to look it up in a book or say "I don't know what that is...", then I know they are new or inexperienced.

What "certain" fish do you ask about? If I went into the LFS and asked them for a Amphiprion perideraion I wouldn't be the least surprised if they didn't know what it was despite the fact that they are fairly common (at least in my LFS)! I think this is a very grey area as some fish have many different common names such as a the Pholidichthys leucotaenia which is known as an Engineer Goby, Eel Goby, Engineer Blenny, or Convict Blenny dispite the fact that it is neither a Goby nor a Blenny. I too would rather someone look it up if they are uncertain.

 

[Dentoid]

I apologize for not making that clearer. Generally, I don't go into a lfs asking for fish by their scientific name. I might ask for a pink anemonefish or something else. This is just one way to help distinguish who may or may not have good advice. Which is what I thought this TOTW was about, but it looks like its turning into who's honest and who isn't.

 

[cheeks69]

Some LFS' are dishonest and some have employees that know little to nothing about the livestock they keep and occasionally you find the LFS that know's what they're talking about and can be trusted. Without any knowledge you will simply not be able to distinguish between them.

One question you can ask since they're so common at LFS':
Is a Goniopora a good beginner coral ?

 

[BrothaWolf]

Brotherwolf. So if you walk into a new lfs and ask if they have any Royal Grammas and the employee says, "I don't know what that is...", you would continue taking advice from that person? Honesty is one thing, advice is another-stick to the topic!

I dont know about taking his advice but as long as he comes back with the right answer its way better than the guy who tells you that sweet green brittle star is 100% reef safe even though he has never seen one before

**Sorry I had to edit this I missed your "stick to the topic" Dont you think honesty is a HUGE factor in determining who is a good advisor and who is bad?

 

[matronga]

Do your homework.Read and read.Get Marine Fish and Reef magazine. Excellent material for keeping a reef tank(to bad theres only one a year)Get Marine Fishes(Scott Michael)tells you everything you need to know before you buy. This way you can tell if the lfs people know what their talking about.If the lfs is a good one they will not sell you something that your are not set up to handle. Follow along here on reef Sanctuary and you can tell who the people are who have the best advice. Not everyone here has the same answers, but you can still learn alot.

 

[sasquatch]

how about " how many products do I need to cycle a tank" ( lord knows how many I was sold in the dark days) Steve

 

[Snelly40]

it is hard to know who to trust , esp at ur LFS where the owner may just be in it for the money., i have a salesrep who has talked me out of more expensive items for cheapers ones that are more efficient and he is an enthusiest. we always talk about our two tanks and now he is the only one i will talk to there. I started eing skeptical of the others when i asked an employee and the owner if a purple psuedochromis would be a problem in my tank and he flat out lied to me. i returned it the next day and now will only deal with one employee, i have even waited 45 mintes to talk to him and he has never steered me wrong and helps me with DIY things to help save me money too.

 

[cioutlaw]

Ive been to some stores that have "not reef safe" next to the price tag which is good & have also seen a paragraph description w/picture of each fish/coral that was laminated & placed next to each tank.

My LFS has a pretty large turn over, he hires students being a college town but most are Biology majors. I have to give them credit I hear more stories where people are mad because they make them bring multiple water samples in & want a perfect 1 before selling them a fish. I had to wait 3 weeks before they would sell me a Wrasse that I special ordered because it wasnt eating good. The unexperienced employees are encouraged not to answer questions if they are not 100% sure of the answer.

I think the best thing you can do is ask questions then go home & research it in books or on the net to confirm.

 

[sasquatch]

Maybe its not what you ask, its what you see, Ive got 3 LFS within driving range,eg.1 keeps acro frags under N.O. lighting, later bleaches said frags and sells them to beginers as decorations.
eg.2 mass cyano outtbreak in reef tank. dead fish and really sick fish left in disply tanks.
eg.3 Large colony coral with obviously recently snapped off chunks freshly stuck to live rock.
Visual observation is sometimes very rewarding,I strongly suggest multiple visits to LFS to see what goes on before ever buying. Steve

 

[aquaman3680]

Being that I have worked at several fish stores I can help in this situation. Dentoid- you mentioned something about asking about a fish... By doing this you arent testing the employees knowledge. The name that you call a fish may be different than what the employee knows the fish as.

for example: someone came in and asked me if we carried any two tone gobys. I didn't know what she was talking about and i looked it up in a book. I later found out she was talking about a bi-color blenny. So you cant really judge how much a person knows based on a coral or fish name.

JMHO

Matt

 

[bluespotjawfish]

Before I even talk to anyone, I look at all their tanks to see if the fish/corals are healthy looking, if tanks are algae free, and if the store is organized and well stocked. Typically once I find that, even if someone working at the store isn't very knowledgable, there is someone around who is. I start by saying, I want talk with someone about... This gives them a way out of responding to the question if they don't know. I don't expect one person to know everything. They usually know who knows about what in the store (someone may know more about fish, someone else about the corals or equipment) and I have found that most employees will get the person I need to answer the specific question or topic I am interested in. If what they tell me doesn't make any sense, I research it some more. I often do not purchase the item they refer me to, but that gives me enough information to research it further. For example, there are lots of different skimmers are out there, so I visited a few stores and asked them what they stocked and why. Just like on this forum, you have to give them enough information about what you need or are interested in achieving for them to effectively help you. I'll ask them what they like about one brand over another, what they don't like... I visited the fish store at least 20 times before I ever purchased my tank setup, visited the library (internet was pretty slow back then), and I also watched my friend establish his tank first (knowing that if he could succeed then I could too).

 

[Cougra]

Maybe its not what you ask, its what you see,

This is another very good point that you brought up. Seeing a run down shop is generally a pretty good sign that you probably aren't going to get a lot of good advice, but what about other things to look for in a shop to determine if you should buy things there?
What should people look for in the displays?
How about the dry goods area? I know some shops that have their book section hidden from view and even the books for sale look well used (If you can find them)
Does seeing a good clean store mean you are more likely to get good advice?

Should you wait for employees to ask you questions about the tank before they sell you fish?

 

[Witfull]

not always true. there is a difference. i know a store its cramped, crowded, not very tank is all sparkly all the time. shelfs can be packed and somewhat cluttered looking. the floor could use a serious buffing. does this make it a bad store? at first glance it may seem that way. but once walking through and seeing their animals and supplies, talking to the employees, the picture changes. they have good fish and invert selection, good turn over, and take time to help customers. some stores may not be the prettiest but they have great stuff and customer service. others may be all bright and polished, but this could be masking another problem.