The River Flows to the Sea

Saltwater Sarge

New Member
I was discussing sump designs and an odd idea occurred to me.
I've heard more than a few keepers say that we're trying to replicate "real reef conditions" in our tanks,
so when I needed a new ATO system I wondered...

I have a spare 10g tank that'll fit nicely in my stand. Could I set up that 10g as a micro freshwater tank, use a MJ to
pump into my sump?

Has anyone tried this before? Or heard of it attempted?
 

nivek

Well-Known Member
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RS Ambassador
Most of the rivers near the beaches have brackish water condition rather than fully freshwater. Another problem you'll face is you can't continuously top up freshwater in a close loop system without removing excess water.
 

Saltwater Sarge

New Member
Well, you do realize that brackish water just means that its halfway between freshwater and salt water. It came from fresh water at some point.
 

nivek

Well-Known Member
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RS Ambassador
Oops couldn't finish writing as I was in traffic. Just added additional comments in original post :)
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
So you are just saying you want to put FW livestock into your Top Off container? I don't see why that wouldn't work so long as nothing gets sucked up into the intake pump. Just make sure you have a constant way to Top Off your Top Off container so nothing in there gets harmed.

Sounds like a neat project.
 

blackbeltmom

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Would it make a different that you are topping off with clean freshwater? Rather water with waste from the freshwater livestock.
 

GlassMunky

Active Member
wouldnt that just be adding more bioload and nutrients to your reef tank everytime you toped off? the freshwater/brackish fish would be building up the nitrates in their FW tank that you then pump into the Reef............ i guess it can work as long as you have enough filtration, but its gonna make thing harder IMO
 

Wrangy

Acropora Nut
RS STAFF
PREMIUM
+1 to both Kevin and Allen

You'll need to be very careful with this and at the same time it's an interesting idea :) and I can see some of the benefits to it as well

You'll have to keep a close eye on the nutrient levels in the FW ATO as they could lead to problems, so stock it lightly just to be sure till you're confident about it going into your tank.

I think the most important consideration is the fact that you will be mixing two different ecosystem which vary quite widely and mixing the two with no 'interval' stages could complicate things and lead to some problems. The main ones being disease, parasites and infections as you don't know what crossing them could do or what you'll be adding to who and also die-off from the FW to the SW as any FW life will most likely die as soon as it enters your system including most but not all bacteria as they will not be built for such a strong shock.

I agree with what Kevin is saying about using a brackish water setup rather than pure salt as I think you'll get better benefits from doing so and also less problems/complications however doing that will also mean you'll need to keep an eye on your salinity so it mean mean you'll have to do some dedicated FW top-offs to keep it stable :)

All in all I think it's a wicked idea and I'd love to see what you do it it/where it goes :)
Keep us updated with what you're planning :)
 

theplantman

Active Member
Your idea is sound, however water in natural freshwater systems are constantly being filtered by naturally occurring bacteria and plant life, so you might as well say when it reaches the ocean it may as well be RO water. If you stock your freshwater feed, especially a small one, it will be near impossible to match the filtering capability of a natural ecosystem and you will be dumping excess ammonia, nitrites and nitrates into your saltwater system. Then you have the added challenge of controlling disease in both systems. Like wrangy said above. That means you need two hospital tanks now and probably a UV between the two systems.

So lets say you give it a shot, you will need a planted system. Good lighting will be a must as well as a good substrate. You will need to evaluate the chemical makeup of that substrate to see if it will effect your reef. (Freshwater plants love phosphates and a lot of substrates contain these in big numbers) our reefs hate them.... next you have the PH differences most planted tanks tend to be around 7.0 or lower. I kept mine at 6.8, and finally to have the plants thrive, a lot of people dose carbon dioxide which freshwater plants need for proper photosynthesis to occur. For a heavily planted tank such as the one needed to really purify the water, I would guess this would be necessary. Not sure how this will effect the PH and buffering ability in a saltwater system.

Sounds like a real cool project, I would love to see a functioning system like this, it would be amazing, but I think it would need to be done on a very large system in order to make maintaining the water quality easier.
 

Mayja

Social Media Moderator
RS STAFF
So you are just saying you want to put FW livestock into your Top Off container? I don't see why that wouldn't work so long as nothing gets sucked up into the intake pump. Just make sure you have a constant way to Top Off your Top Off container so nothing in there gets harmed.

Sounds like a neat project.

If they're mollies, the salt water won't kill 'em since they live in brackish water as is - hehehe... I'm kidding.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
...
I have a spare 10g tank that'll fit nicely in my stand. Could I set up that 10g as a micro freshwater tank, use a MJ to
pump into my sump?

Has anyone tried this before? Or heard of it attempted?

This is something that is going to cause a lot more problems than it's going to solve. As pointed out by others, you have the water from a FW system, which is not the RO/DI water that you really want for top off water. Use a 10 gal tank to just hold RO/DI water for top off.

Depending on your tank size evaporation can be high. My 125 gal reef will evaporate over a bucket of water a day. This would drain a 10 gal tank to empty in about 3 days.

There are some examples of people that have set up systems to show the ecosystem from a FW stream to a brackish marsh to the sea, but these are very complex, large systems and require a massive investment.
 

BasaReef

New Member
Even if this doesnt work,
Thinking outside the box is the way so many things advance in science.
In this case, it probably can be done, but with a lot of trial and error, and unfortunately cost.
B
 
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