Tank won't cycle

reefrunner

Contributing Member
Ok here is the deal, I have been what I would have considered an advanced aquarist, but got out of the hobby completely about 5 years ago and have been tankless for 8 years. My daughter convinced me to set up a tank for her clownfish she go in her marine biology class. These were tank raised ORA clowns.

I set up a 20g long aquarium the last weekend in April.
-20 long tank
-HOB initially I used bio-material froman old wet/dry filter now it is a DSB/refugium with some chaeto and a few small mangroves with a clip on power compact lamp
-AquaC Remora skimmer w/maxi jet 1200 pump
-ATO
-(2) 450gph koralia pumps and (1) koralia nano run with a tsunami wave maker
-approx 40lbs of live rock (I believe it was cured, but possibly it wasn't)
-2" of (bagged) live sand
-CSL Prism pendant (2) cfl actinics and a 250w 20K metal halide (haven't run the metal halide, only the actinics)

All hardware is the same as I was using 8 years ago when the power went out for days, the tank died and everything was put in storage, pretty much as is, tank wasn't cleaned out. Upon setting it back up I tried to use one piece of previously lr from the old tank it, all decorations and tank and equipment were bleached, for several hours then rinsed out, but since everything had been dry for 8 years....it wasn't scrubbed.

Week 1 I began putting small pieces of fish (frozen cod from the grocery store) to the tank. After 4 weeks I tested, readings appeared to be all 0s. I let my daughter bring home a hermit crab, almost immediately the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates soared, as in off the scale unreadable.

I went to the LFS, got some salt and did a 100% water change. And since school would be out in a week and the LFS would not take in the fish, I got some prime and once the fish came home we started dosing every other day and testing. Never occurred to me the API test kit would not read the water dosed with prime. After another 3 weeks the levels still would not come down and 2 of the 3 clowns had died, the other seemed unphased, I stopped dosing the prime and began doing some water changes several 25% pwc's over the course of a week.

That has been about 3 weeks ago, and the ammonia has been stuck at approximately 0.7mg/l according to my new ocean systems test kit,(probably not any more accurate, but easier to read) and 0.3 mg/l nitrite and the nitrates are off the scale which tops out at 100mg/l, ph is 7.8.

Last night the last clown died, got sucked into the skimmers power head. I'm about out of ideas, this tank has been up and going for going on 3 months and the cycle still has not finished.

There is coralline algae growing on the rocks that had none when I put it in the tank, and I have had a diatom bloom as well.

Please offer any suggestions on what I should do to get this thing where I can get this tank back on the right path.

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nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Hi Kevin - Cheers for being a RS member since 2003 & an original Contributing Member !

I am just guessing here... but seems something must be dying to cause the ammonia to stay high for weeks on end, right? or the nitrifying bacteria would be converting it... unless I am missing something in your post...

The Prime may also be messing up your testing... but that just a guess too

See what others thing...
 

dmatt88

Has been struck by the ban stick
Good seeing ya around

If I were in ur shoes id pull the rock n give it a boil. Somethings amiss. Put in clean sand n drop in ur ammonia source. Hate to see u start over again just thinking if there's die off now it'll take quite some time to rid the nasties from the rock. Tough call. Or u just keep on doing water changes til the cycle completes.

.............stay thirsty my friend.
 

steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
FWIW a couple things stick out here:

1) "Week 1 I began putting small pieces of fish (frozen cod from the grocery store) to the tank. After 4 weeks I tested, readings appeared to be all 0s. I let my daughter bring home a hermit crab, almost immediately the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates soared, as in off the scale unreadable."

This sounds like you put some cod in the tank and didn't test for 4 weeks, and then got all 0s? If so I would advise starting over, dropping in the ammonia source (cod , or shrimp) and test daily so you can see the level rise and fall. Otherwise you're only guessing that it cycled, and if it did cycle where did the nitrates go?

2)" went to the LFS, got some salt and did a 100% water change. And since school would be out in a week and the LFS would not take in the fish, I got some prime and once the fish came home we started dosing every other day and testing. Never occurred to me the API test kit would not read the water dosed with prime. After another 3 weeks the levels still would not come down and 2 of the 3 clowns had died, the other seemed unphased, I stopped dosing the prime and began doing some water changes several 25% pwc's over the course of a week."

Prime messes with the ammonia and nitrite, so I'm not sure you'd cycle a tank and create a good bio filter while dosing with it. I seriously doubt you would get a true cycle.

IMO You've tried to cycle twice, but didn't quite get there. You need to start over and cycle the tank properly, doing the testing (or better yet have your daughter do the testing that's up to you :) ) and monitor properly and let it cycle, do some hefty water changes at the end of the cycle, to export the nitrates, and then add your CUC.
 

reefrunner

Contributing Member
Thanks for all of your replies.

steved13 said:
FWIW a couple things stick out here:

1) "Week 1 I began putting small pieces of fish (frozen cod from the grocery store) to the tank. After 4 weeks I tested, readings appeared to be all 0s. I let my daughter bring home a hermit crab, almost immediately the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates soared, as in off the scale unreadable."

This sounds like you put some cod in the tank and didn't test for 4 weeks, and then got all 0s? If so I would advise starting over, dropping in the ammonia source (cod , or shrimp) and test daily so you can see the level rise and fall. Otherwise you're only guessing that it cycled, and if it did cycle where did the nitrates go?

Sort of, I had to wait on a test kit to get here, I had one in the closet, but it was way expired. Also I did probably add too much fish. But I would have thought it would have decayed to ammonia in that time.

steved13 said:
2)" went to the LFS, got some salt and did a 100% water change. And since school would be out in a week and the LFS would not take in the fish, I got some prime and once the fish came home we started dosing every other day and testing. Never occurred to me the API test kit would not read the water dosed with prime. After another 3 weeks the levels still would not come down and 2 of the 3 clowns had died, the other seemed unphased, I stopped dosing the prime and began doing some water changes several 25% pwc's over the course of a week."

Prime messes with the ammonia and nitrite, so I'm not sure you'd cycle a tank and create a good bio filter while dosing with it. I seriously doubt you would get a true cycle.

IMO You've tried to cycle twice, but didn't quite get there. You need to start over and cycle the tank properly, doing the testing (or better yet have your daughter do the testing that's up to you :) ) and monitor properly and let it cycle, do some hefty water changes at the end of the cycle, to export the nitrates, and then add your CUC.

I'll give it a try.

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reefrunner

Contributing Member
So a week ago this past Sunday I did as close to a 100% water change as I could. I removed all the rock and rinsed it and I cleaned the sand bed. I put in an uncooked jumbo shrimp and let it rot. Sunday the ammonia level topped at 4ppm. Monday it had gone down to 2ppm and has stayed at 2ppm since. I removed the shrimp a couple of days ago and purchased some ammonia to use, cause really the shrimp was pretty nasty. Yesterday I turned the heater up as high as it would go which translates to 78-80 in the tank.

Should I add more ammonia?

Current readings are:
Ammonia : 2ppm
Nitrite : 1.5 - 2 ppm
Nitrate : > 100 ppm
Ph : 7.6

It seems the ammonia should have continued it's decline to 0. The nitrite peaked at about 3-4ppm and went down to 1.5-2ppm at about the same time the ammonia went down. It's been a very long time since I have cycled a tank and this one seems to be breaking the rules.

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steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
What are you using for ammonia?

You should see it drop to 0. You could add to the ammonia source and see if it drops further the next time.

The fact that your nitrates are so high, is a good indication that the cycle is in proccess.
 

reefrunner

Contributing Member
steved13 said:
What are you using for ammonia?

You should see it drop to 0. You could add to the ammonia source and see if it drops further the next time.

The fact that your nitrates are so high, is a good indication that the cycle is in proccess.

I think it was part cycled when I started back over 10 - 12 days ago. After the large water change nitrates were 30ppm and have risen daily until they are above what my test kit will read. I started over using an uncooked shrimp, one ammonia rose to 4ppm and then fell to 2 I removed the shrimp and have a bottle of Ace janitorial strength ammonia so I can dose it back if need be.

I think I'm gonna dose it back to 4ppm and see what happens.

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reefrunner

Contributing Member
I dosed the ammonia to just above 4ppm yesterday, and today it's back to 2ppm. Dosed the ammonia back to 4ppm and will test again this evening, for all the levels.

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steved13

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
I'd try the opposite now, let it sit for a few days and see if it converts the ammonia. You might want to get a second opinion on the test, a little odd it keeps repeating the same way.
 

reefrunner

Contributing Member
Unless I have the worst luck in the history of test kits....I have three and they all agree, also this test kit will test 0, I've tested RO/DI water with it.

We'll see what happens, I'll test again tonight which should be about 4ppm, and see from there, I'll be out of town tomorrow, so we can see what it is Sunday with no dose tomorrow.

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reefrunner

Contributing Member
Still a little cloudy but:

Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite 1.5 - 2ppm
Nitrate > 100ppm
Ph 8.1

In addition when I got home from the zoo today....there was a tiny stomatella snail sliding across the glass.

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sk8rdn

Has been struck by the ban stick
Time for a 50% water change... 100 ppm is high, even for microbes... :)

....Secret Super Hero....
 

reefrunner

Contributing Member
sk8rdn said:
Time for a 50% water change... 100 ppm is high, even for microbes... :)

....Secret Super Hero....

Really? Even though the cycle isn't complete yet?

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sk8rdn

Has been struck by the ban stick
reefrunner said:
Really? Even though the cycle isn't complete yet?

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You're ammonia and nitrite are pretty darn low... I'd just about call that cycled (almost). And 50% won't stop the cycle. But it should be about time to add a CUC and they can't tolerate that high of nitrates. So a water change is gonna be necessary before you do.

....Secret Super Hero....
 

sk8rdn

Has been struck by the ban stick
Wait, your ammonia was only getting to 4ppm right?

I'd give yours a few days to sit and see first... Sorry... I retract my previous posts... :)

....Secret Super Hero....
 
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