Sump step 1: reinforcing 40g aquarium

[rostervandross]

I have a couple specific questions as well as an intent to brainstorm ideas about reinforcing a 40g breeder I am trying to set up as my sump.

First order I would like to go over the seams with fresh silicon.Can I find aquarium safe product at a Walmart or Lowes?

After that I will probably add some clamps at the corners and the middle.. I found this interesting diagram of pressures on a 40g breeder tank:

Please just throw me ideas about reinforcing the tank. It has been brimming with water for over a week now in fluctuating temperatures outside and won't be full of water being used as a sump.



Step 2 is planning for and adding baffles. I am in need of suggestions for setting the water height for a skimmer and suggestions for refugium to return and skimmer space ratio.

Thanks everyone

 

[rostervandross]

Also related, is this type of tubing a good option?

 

[DaveK]

You can find aquarium safe silicone at your typical home improvement store. You do have to be a bit careful. Most contain additives to kill mildew and other bacteria, especially material used for kitchens and baths. You must use material that doesn't contain these additives. Sometimes it's best to play it safe and just order the aquarium material online,

If you do want to reseal the tank, you must remove all the old material first. I usually use a single edge razor blade to get most of it, and then fairly course steel wool to get the thin remaining old silicone, and the clean all the inside seams with alcohol.

There should be no need to reinforce the tank itself.

The water height for the skimmer depends upon the skimmer your going to use. Check the manufactures recommendations for that.

A lot of people use tubing either plain clear, or the reinforced like you show in the picture. It works, but you need to use it with hose barbs. This greatly restricts water flow,

Personally, I recommend rigid PVC pipe and fitting when ever possible as the first choice. It's actually easier to work with once you get the hang of it. In places where I need to curve around something, or I want to have some give in the plumbing, I use flexible PVC pipe, also know as Spa-flex, because it used in hot tubs. Here is an example - http://www.marinedepot.com/Flexible...VC_Tubing-Alpine_Corp-FT1373-FIFTTUFP-vi.html
It can be glued with the same primer and cement as rigid PVC pipe, although the heavy duty cement does work a little better. Only if the these methods can't be used will I use hose barbs and PVC tubing.

There is no need to use reinforced tubing, unless normal clear tubing might kink. Aquarium water pressures are not that high.

 

[rostervandross]

Thank you dave. I am glad you made the point of restricted flow with the barbed hose connections with that vinyl tubing. The 1" ID of both PVC and spa flex is consistent through the unions?

I will post a picture of the sump once I get a chance to work on it tomorrow!

It is 36" x 18" and I need to figure out how to calculate the baffled compartment dimensions and water level.. I Don't know why I'm having such a hard time with it.. Small inflow chamber to fit skimmer into majority space refugium to small return pump. But how to calculate and plumb for overflow capacity and to keep water level in the tank constant and evaporate from the sump is still fuzzy

 

[DaveK]

Yes, the inside diameter of the fittings for fittings works with the outside diameter of the pipe. Since we are on the subject, get the clear PVC primer. You'll get a much neater looking job, since it won't show if it runs,

Your going to need a fairly large area for a skimmer. Also make that area a bit larger, because you never can tell when you might have to replace a skimmer, or replace a pump on a skimmer. It would'd be fun to relocate a baffle on a running system.

The return area is also key, because that's where you'll need to put your pump, ATO and it's the best place to put heaters. Many people underside this area, On a typical sump figure on it being about 1/4 to 1/2 the sump. Again make it a bit larger than the pump your using, since you may need to replace that also.

You can roughly figure each 1" drain pipe from an overflow is good for up to about 600 GPH. A 1 1/2 drain pipe is good for about double that. You can restrict the output side of the pump with a valve, but you don't want to restrict flow too much.

When you use a sump, you almost need an automatic top off system of some sort. I highly recommend one that has some sort of fail safe built in to it, to prevent it from putting all the top off water into the system and causing a major disaster, or from letting the pump run dry.

As an example, if you have two 1" drain pipes, at 600 GPH each for 12000 gal you want to use a pump that can give you that rate of flow at about 4 feet of head. I'd typically choose a pump in the 1500 to 2000 gph range, but you do need to check carefully. Many pumps are rated at 0 head, and the flow drops fast as you go up, especially on pumps not rated for pressure. Most internal pumps are not pressure rated.

 

[rostervandross]

All right good to know. Settled on plumbing materials. Thank you Dave

Here's another jumble of thoughts and a diagram to base dimension questions off of:

Would you say this is best design: A skimmer chamber first, to B refugium to C return chamber?


Is the width of chamber A basically dependent on how big of a skimmer I upgrade into?

Which leads into the ratio of red X (height of inflow/skimmer chamber to green X ( height/ volume of refuge and outflow chamber)? I am primarily trying to accomplish a larger total system water volume so I want to make them fairly tall, but when does it become too deep? I can always put my skimmer up on stilts I think



Then in relation to Red X, Green X + Y are my most important to decide on.. any suggestion for volume? Whatever is left will be my refugium / natural filtration.



Other than that, where does my auto top off water want to connect into?

 

[DaveK]

The sump design your showing is very common, especially among manufactured sumps. It works, but I don't thing it's the best that can be done.

There really is no relationship between the green baffle on the left for the return section verses the red ones on the right for the skimmer section, except the return section should be lower.

You set the height of the red skimmer baffles to control the height of water for the skimmer. This depends upon what the skimmer manufacture recommends. Even so you have quite a bit of lattitude here.

The sump must be able to hold all the "live water" if you have a power failure. It's ok if the water goes above the normal baffles. Be sure to test this. You do not want to find out the hard way.

ATOs get in to a whole other area. You want to make sure that whatever controls them can't cause a problem if it fails. It the ATO uses a pump, you usually want to add water at a high point in the system, such as an overflow.

 

[rostervandross]

I am coming to the conclusion that the baffle and compartment dimensions do not need to be as precise or as balanced as i thought..

The reading that frisbee linked me to had a line that read "you can plumb your sump so that the water level in the tank stays constant and evaporates from the sump".. but it seems any way you plumb it that is the case due to the return pump always pumping water that can only flow up to the overflow.


Can I make the baffles taller for more water volume and put whichever skimmer I end up with up on a support?

How much volume should my return pump section hold?

Any recommendations for a better design than the one pictured? I am thinking about trying to incorporate a filter pad or something into the baffles

And to slow down flow through the refugium is that best done through the plumbing rather than complicated baffling?


I have purchased a sheet of acrylic and am ready to start cutting pieces and putting them in place!

 

[rostervandross]

Got a few sheets of acrylic cut for the first set of baffles for the skimmer compartment. I'm making it 10.5" high. Also cut my hand on the top of the tank where I took the rim off. 10 stitches and some more time to plan the rest of the compartments

So after the first two red pieces of baffling I am trying to incorporate a baffle piece or two with holes or slits throughout to make the flow through the refugium more consistent or even and slow. Then I am going to try to make the green baffle pieces hold some filter material to force the water through before the return pump. Thoughts? Would this catch my copepods from making it into the return pump and maybe place it in between the skimmer and refug?

 

[rostervandross]

Heres some examples of what I am talking about with the slits in the baffling and incorporating a sponge holder:

 

[rostervandross]

What do yall think about this?

I have the first set of baffles to hold ceramic balls or media bags and perhaps mechanical filtration, then the third baffle piece with slits to encourage even, slower flow through the refugium. Then the second set of baffles could hold a sponge or other bags of media if the sponge would possibly block the creatures growing in the refugium from being pumped into the tank.

That is basically my only concern now: where i should plan on placing the mechanical filtration between baffle set 1 or 2. Or just run the overflow pipe through a filter sock?


Also, I have an overflow box with two 1" bulkheads/drains. Should I run two lines into the sump or Y them into one ?

 

[rostervandross]

Here is my final blueprint :

Just trying to figure the plumbing now.

 

[DaveK]

You seem to really like those ceramic balls in the filtration section between baffles 3 and 4.

I highly recommend you get rid of them. They are going to cause a lot of long term problems. They tend to become dirt traps and in turn a nitrate factory. Once that happend they will also consume a lot of oxygen due to all the bacteria in them.

In fact, this will also make your construction a lot easier. You can omit baffles 3 and 4.

If you want to use other media, your much better off using a reactor. Different media work best at different flow rates.